registration for money laundering - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

Gaynor · Member

registration for money laundering

Julie · Senior Member

Hi Gaynor,

I agree in part with what you are saying, in that you can only record the information a client gives you. Unless it is totally obvious that a client is money laundering then I would be none the wiser also.

However, MLR has given bookkeepers the recognition they deserve, the down side is that we have to pay for that recognition !

For me, and hopefully other bookkeepers, the MLR has made it easier to acquire clients because of the acknowledgement from HMRC.

Julie

rowets · Veteran Member

Julie wrote:

For me, and hopefully other bookkeepers, the MLR has made it easier to acquire clients because of the acknowledgement from HMRC.

Hi Julie,

Can you expand on what you mean by 'acknowledement from HMRC'? I paid my dues in September and they haven't said 'thank you' to me, or sent me a nice framed certificate!! wink

Tim

Gaynor · Member

HI Tim
I got a nice certificate, but £95 for a piece of paper does absolutely nothing for me, i disagree with the fact we have recognision by HMRC, I believe once again we are unpaid tax collectors for the government, I actually telephoned HMRC and asked the question,
please could you advise me how to spot if one of my clients is money laundering?
they couldnt answer the question except to say it was new europeon law, told me to write to my MP which I did. Paul Flyn MP also agreed with me by email, and will take it up in westminster on my behalf. WATCH THIS SPACE, not for to long cause that will probably be the last I hear of it.
Just think how many clients you could lose if you thought they were money laundering and took it further, and then you were wrong OOPs idea

regards Gaynor

-- Edited by Gaynor at 16:51, 2008-12-01

rowets · Veteran Member

Hi Gaynor,

Are you really serious? You actually did get a certificate? I was being sarcastic when I suggested that, I never thought it would be true!

Tim

Gaynor · Member

Hi Tim

Yes nice certificate, expensive though just showing membership of MLR not sure if I will display it or advertise the fact I am a member, I feel clients may feel a little intimidated, Dont want recognision as Spy or Sneak, although I do appreciate that Money laundering is a serious offence, I am not qualified to make a decision of that nature which could plant the seed of doubt in the hmrc and cause an innocent person a lot of distress.
Gaynor

Julie · Senior Member

Hi Gaynor & Tim,

Oh what a can of worms we have opened up ! Tim, I will forgive you for being sarcastic, but only this once !!

Have I missed something ? so far my clients have not had a problem with me when the subject of MLR has been raised (ie; asking for additional identification when first taking on a client to check they are who they say they are).

However, saying that, unless we have access to fingerprint recognition, a client can just as easily pull the wool over our eyes as they can the authorities, therefore the first line of defence ie the bookkeeper, is totally inadequate then !

I will admit, I would have a huge problem if I did come across or suspect ML was going on, would I want it on my conscious that I may have be wrong ? I can only answer that if I ever come across that problem.

Julie

Gaynor · Member

Hi Julie,

Lets just hope the situation does not arise, and we dont have to make a decision of that nature personally I think its down to accountants they have all info surrounding the client.
I would prefer to stay on the fence rather than be wrong about someone, and lose a client.
I do very much respect the need for MLR but think its really stretching the law making book keepers part of it.

thanks for your input

Gaynor

CBS · Member

Actually, it's not for us to spot something that might be considered money laundering, but to report anything that is suspicious for governmental bodies to research into and make the decision as to whether money laundering has occured or not.

I think the main concern is theft from the government itself, and the act is deminimis (sp). So, for instance, if VAT has been underpaid by £1 and the client will not bother to pay this amending future returns etc, we are supposed to report it.

The whole money laundering thing has nothing to do with catching real criminals, rather than to forcibly use everyone possible to help the government squeeze every penny from the taxpayer, and charge us for the privilege, in my opinion. Anybody actually laundering money would be clever enough to not get discovered by his bookkeeper or choose one who is bent anyway. Utter disgrace and complete waste of time.

Sorry, rant over.

Gaynor · Member

Thank you for your input, i agree totally we only get the info the client gives us, if you read the MLR8 leaflet lol!!! it refers to terrorist activity money laundering which we are supposed to spot, but we book keepers know the real reason, cash to government £95 per piece, it would be interesting to know just how many £95 they have received.
Cant wait for the reply I get from Westminster I emailed MP Paul Flynn who replied he would investigate the subject

regards Gaynor

Nimac · Senior Member

I would agree to a certain extent that getting us to pay for the privilege of money laundering is a bit rich however i can also see why we are being forced to do this.

We, as bookkeepers, are probably one of a few people in a professional capacity to have detailed knowledge of our clients affairs and so it would seem right that we are being held accountable to a certain extent for checking the activity within the financial records and reporting anything suspicious.

I worked for one of the four large banks for several years and doing money laundering checks was a large part of my job, in fact anybody from the cashier to the MD was required to comply with the regulations, you could lose your job if you didn't.

I am personally glad that we have to comply as it makes the bookkeeping profession a more legitimate and professional one - its just a pity we have to pay for it!!!

Just thought i would add re the post above about being able to spot suspicious activity, i spent a large part of my time with the bank i used to work checking bank statements and it was fairly obvious if there was unusual transactions on the bank statements so if it does occur to any of you - which i'm sure it wont as it is very rare - dont be afraid to investigate further.

-- Edited by Nimac at 18:42, 2008-12-05

brog13 · Veteran Member

On a slightly different note - I wonder of anyone can answer this query?

I have three accounts through 'my' accountant - ones I have been doing for some time, as has she. I know that when the ML came into effect, she complied by getting copies of the passports etc from the owners.

Am I right in thinking I have to do the same thing?

Many thanks
Babs

Gaynor · Member

I would just check the identity of any new clients, but if they come through accountants I would assume they have already done the checks

Regards Gaynor

TraceyAnn · Veteran Member

Hi, I have been self employed since 1992 and am a member of the ICB. I have attended a seminar on money laundering and the whole thing was quite frightening. The ICB are registered with the HMRC and as a member I have to comply with the institute regarding form filling and assessing the risk of each client. I have only got to ask for help if I need it. Even if your clients accountants have proof of id, you should still have it on your files.

Suffolker · Senior Member

Has anyone been investigated regarding all this yet? The ICB say they will be doing it more in the new year.

Gaynor · Member

I am not aware of any investigations in process. should make interesting reading.
how many book keepers have all the facts about the clients they deal with?
I know the business address from which they work ie registered address, the bank account that deals with that business plus sales and purchases. Why would I need to know more I am a record keeper, that what the government insists on, a set records for your business, from which an accountant can complete a tax return, which that client signs, from that point on the liability is with the client.
Gaynor

TraceyAnn · Veteran Member

I have just had a quick look through some of the notes from the huge file sent to me from the ICB and it states

"as a professional bookkeeper you should know as much as possible about your clients and their business. This will not only help you provide the level of service they need but it will also ensure that you are fully aware of everything that goes on in the financial transactions of the business."

It then goes on to say

"It is worth remembering that the majority of clients are legal, descent honest and truthful and that the introduction of the MLR is not to cacth these people out or to make your life a difficulty: They are there to protect us all and, if handled correctly, we should be able to assist the Treasury, HMRC and SOCA to do their jobs better and to catch those few individuals and firms who are laundering money or financing terrorism."

I know we now have extra work and paperwork to do, but at least now we are being treated as professionals and not just dogsbodies while the accountants get the huge bucks!

Julie · Senior Member

Thank you TraceyAnn,

Im glad someone else feels that we are at last being treated as professionals.

Whatever way you look at it, love it or hate it, the MLR exists. we are required to abide by it, end of !

Julie