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VinceH


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I sent out statements on behalf of a client this morning. They're sent by email, as PDFs, straight from Sage - and I include this phrase on the statements:

Please note: Some recent transactions may not be reflected on this statement.

I always make sure I've input everything to do with sales before sending the statements - so all receipts from the online banking, and any remittance advices where the payment is set up in advance, for example.

Subsequent to sending out the statements, I received an email from one of the customers.. cue a short conversation by email, which boils down to this:

Custard: We've paid invoice xyz - it shouldn't be on the statement.

Me: When did you pay it?

Custard: Yesterday.

At this point, I do my first facepalm. You can see the relevance of the phrase I include on the statement - which, granted, the custard probably hasn't read. They've seen it many times before, so probably just ignore it.

But anyway, the conversation continues:

Me: I've checked the bank, and there's no sign of the payment. Has it definitely left your account?

Custard: No, it's set up for tomorrow.

Facepalm #2. But perhaps the error is mine - perhaps I've not seen the remittance advice.

Me: I can't see a remittance advice notifying me - when did you send it?

Custard: I don't send remittance advices.

Facepalm #3.

To summarise: This custard somehow thinks I should have taken into account a payment that I don't know about because it hasn't happened yet.

FFS!



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Cheshire


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Predictable people are the laughing FFS of today. 

The ones who say thank you some considerable time after being helped - but just seconds before they pose another question!

Oh but I suppose you could say that at least they say a guilty thanks, unlike some.

But they dont think we have sussed them - funny as!!!



-- Edited by Cheshire on Wednesday 10th of January 2018 01:14:10 PM

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VinceH


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This is priceless.

I may have mentioned before elsewhere that at one client, there is a fairly regular scam attempt going on of the spear phishing variety; the normal pattern is that when someone (more often than not one of the directors - not a specific one; any of them) is on holiday, someone else will receive an email purporting to be them, asking if a payment can be set up ASAP.

(Most of the time, that email contains no details - but occasionally they do; I've received two or three with an attachment with payment details - different accounts each time, belonging to someone who is probably not involved but whose account has been pwned in some way.)

But this latest one is the FFS moment.

One of the directors was away over Christmas, and he's just shown me that he received one of these emails over the holiday.

Purporting to be from which director?

HIMSELF!

FFS!



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VinceH


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This thread is like an old friend!

Anyway... I received an email from Bibby Financial Services, asking for confirmation if we'd received an invoice from their client, and that the money would be paid to them. This is fairly normal (and annoying).

What's also normal is for them to use a small image showing the invoice details, instead of it being text (whether plain or formatted in HTML).

However, this time the email included a reference to the image, but the image wasn't actually attached. This is the reply I sent back.

sillybibby.jpg

 

While I was really being a bit facetious, there is a serious point to this: The colour scheme they normally use for such images isn't brilliant, so what if I was partially sighted - perhaps affected by colour blindness? What if I had to use a screen reader?

Idjits.

 



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Leger


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Love that last paragraph of the email Vince!

 

 



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Cheshire


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Great response Vince. Bet it fell on deaf ears!!!

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VinceH


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"Bet it fell on deaf ears!!!"

Yes and no.

As well as posting that image here, I also put it on Twitter - so there are two streams of replies.

By email, I received a reply from a different person explaining that the person who sent the original email "was simply seeking confirmation that" I'd received the invoice, and then included the details of the invoice in the body text.

The exact phrasing sounded to me like the person may have taken my reply personally - so I explained that wasn't so (and asked for my apologies to be passed on) because using an image for the information is standard in their organisation.

I then went on to make the point that it's not good for people with impaired vision and who might have to use screen readers.

And because they'd now included the invoice details, I was able to confirm that.

The subsequent reply? Just "Thanks for your timely response. Much appreciated."

So from that, I've absolutely no idea if they've read and taken on board the point I was making. That response may have just been to the bit where I confirmed receipt of the invoice.

Meanwhile, on Twitter: An initial reply apologising for the inconvenience, and that they'd "spoken to the relevant team" and that I'd be getting another email. (That was before the one mentioned above).

(I should stress: There was nothing in the email to identify the supplier in question, but they almost certainly managed to work out what they needed from my name - it's not that common! This has happened before.)

I then replied making the point about vision impairment and screen readers, and the subsequent reply on Twitter said "it's a good point and we've taken your feedback on board."

So possibly - possibly - the Twitter bod has passed that point on to others who make decisions and someone will take notice. (If they change, it won't be straight away - but we shall see!)

And I didn't even have to mention the Disability Discrimination Act. (It's a slightly unusual situation - Bibby aren't providing a service to customers of their clients - but I suspect it would just about be applicable.)

 

 



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VinceH


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Meanwhile, another FFS.

An invoice I processed today has a date of 31/03/2018

In the payment details box it has "ACCT" marked, and it says "30 DAYS (FROM INVOICE)" - fair enough. That'll be the 30th April, then, right?

Nope. Immediately under that it says "PAYMENT DUE 14.04.18"

FFS!

I suspect this is someone who does his invoices manually, typing figures into the relevant spaces in a word processor document - or even a spreadsheet without using formulae where needed (which I've seen many people doing); reusing a previous one and not changing every bit as needed.

Or he thinks time travel is real, and expects customers to wait 30 days, then travel back in time by 16 days to pay him.

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VinceH


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One of my clients is especially difficult - and messy. Getting everything up together can be challenging. (I'm sure we all have at least one like this!)

The process of completing a VAT return often goes along these lines: I tell them that based on what I have, the VAT figures looks like it'll be Łx. The director replies that it "needs to be" Ły - where Ły is significantly less than Łx.

Note "needs to be" rather than "should be" - the figure I'm told is never based on what's happened in the quarter, but more on what they want to pay. My reply invariably points out that:

(a) the VAT figure is a historical fact based on what's gone through the books;

(b) and the final figure probably is less than I said (but not as low as they said) because there is probably paperwork that they've not yet given me that will affect it. There invariably is - and the final figure is always lower than my original figure, but never as low as theirs.

This latest quarter is no different: The basic conversation about the amount has gone as it usually does, and I've since received a lot more stuff to go through (some of it copies of stuff I've already seen, which adds to the work because I have to check everything to avoid duplication).

So this weekend - a bank holiday weekend, don't forget - I've been ploughing through it all, with a view to getting that VAT return submitted by today; the deadline.

I've just submitted that return.

I expected HMRC's submission thing to say "the payment will be taken by DD on the 10th" (or whatever the exact wording is).

Instead it said "Your payment is due by the 7th".

The idiots have cancelled their direct debit to HMRC - and despite the fact that this will affect when the payment is due, and therefore when I'd like to submit by - they didn't bother letting me know.

It's a bank holiday. There's nobody around to make the payment - so it's going to be late.

Having said that, my guess is that if they've cancelled the DD, the payment was always going to be made late anyway - but still...

FFS!



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Leger


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Yep, can see your frustration Vince.



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In these days of phishing techniques etc I've just had a call from my bank.  He wanted to take me through security so I said well you could be anybody, I want to take you through security.  What's the last 3 digits of my bank account?  He said I can't answer until I've taken you through security.  FFS  I can't see why the bank couldn't have given me that information seeing as they are calling me, not me calling them.  Apparently they will now send me a letter through the post.

On googling the number it was my bank.

 



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VinceH


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I had a very similar conversation with my bank - but this was many years ago, so long ago it was before phishing was a term used for, well, phishing.

I point blank refused to answer their security questions because, to me, it seemed obvious that the caller could be anyone trying to get that information so that they could impersonate me.

And now, all these years later, that sort of thing is indeed common.

"On googling the number it was my bank."

Well, it appeared to come from your bank's number. Even though I have my banks (etc) numbers in my phone, if they call me and ask security questions, they'll still get a flat refusal until and unless they can answer my security questions of them first.


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Leger


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VinceH wrote:

"On googling the number it was my bank."

Well, it appeared to come from your bank's number. Even though I have my banks (etc) numbers in my phone, if they call me and ask security questions, they'll still get a flat refusal until and unless they can answer my security questions of them first.

 That's a very valid point Vince, yes phone numbers can be spoofed.



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VinceH


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(This could equally be appropriate in Joanne's 'HS useless BC!' thread, even though this is HSBC Invoice Factoring, rather than the bank - but I'll stick to form and put it here.)

A reply I've just sent to them:

mphsbc.png

Sometimes, I just have to vent when faced with such things.

Similarly, Bibby Northeast have an email address for remittance advices - from which I am now getting non-delivery reports.

Utterly useless, the lot of them.



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Vince M Hudd - Soft Rock Software

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Cheshire


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lol! Well maybe not as its so bloody frustrating! Did you get a response? do you ever?

Try to persaude your client to move from Bibby to Positive Finance. I had one with them and they were easy to deal with and provided good reports (although had I left it to said client I wouldve been using the usual back of a fackpacket or dpf paypal type reports nonesence, so I found building a relationship with them myself really helped and I rarely got any of these such chasers. Mind you - no idea if they were much dearer or not as they are realtively new compared in the market compared to Bibby. Although maybe it just depends on the relationship team that you get at the provider.

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Cheshire


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FFS - when a client gives you incorrect info and then asks you to apologise on their behalf!!

Or use their words when doing eg credit control....but put your name on the bottom of it.

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 Joanne 

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VinceH


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"Well maybe not as its so bloody frustrating! Did you get a response? do you ever?"

Not yet, but it was only yesterday - if I do get one it'll probably be a week at least.

"Try to persaude your client to move from Bibby to Positive Finance."

Not my client - it's suppliers of theirs using Bibby.

I have a set of two remittance advices set up in Sage, laid out for plain text because that's how I like to roll with email (though ironically, while I consider Sage's reporting to be brilliant - laying something out for plain text emails is wrought with problems).

The first is designed for emailing directly to suppliers so that they know they're being paid, and what invoices the payment is for, etc. The second is designed for emailing to factoring companies, so they know they're receiving a payment on behalf of one of their clients.

"Or use their words when doing eg credit control....but put your name on the bottom of it."

Oh, yeah - an ex client of mine did that... well, sort of. They invented a fictitious credit controller, and decided his name would be Vince. Pure coincidence, obviously.

Edit: Forum decided to bork my formatting.



-- Edited by VinceH on Tuesday 5th of June 2018 10:39:01 PM

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Cheshire


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Ah right, maybe if I stopped skim reading stuff, I might've realised you were on that end of the process in this case. Oops, sorry!

Loving the idea of Vince the fictitious credit controller. Of all the names!!!

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VinceH


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Going back to the HSBC Invoice Finance thing...

"Did you get a response?"

The answer now becomes: Yes, no, sort of.

I haven't had a reply to the email in the screenshot that I sent last week, but note the bit where I questioned if I was now going to receive a similar reply in respect of each payment made to them since the one in question? I've now had a similar email to the one that prompted my reply - so the answer to my question is sort of yes.

Sort of? Because instead of being the next payment after the one above, this is referring to a payment apparently made the week before - except it doesn't match the payment I made on or near that date. I think it's a cumulative balance of unallocated payments made up to that point, which means I've no way of knowing how much of this payment + how much of that payment + how much of the other payment (etc) actually contribute to it, and therefore which invoices it relates to.

The only thing I know is which supplier it's for, because there's only one using HSBC Invoice Finance.

It's also worth noting that these emails come from hsbc.co.in - which is a legit HSBC domain, but an Indian one. Outsourcing the factoring company work to a country with cheap labour is obviously working well.

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VinceH


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So I'm now having problems with HSBC Invoice Finance and their inability to allocate using remittance advices, Bibby NE and their email frazzled in some way... and as of today, Aldermore.

I sent a remittance advice re a payment for a supplier that uses them, and in reply I've had:

"Thank you for your email.
If you require any Copy Invoices please contact your supplier direct as Aldermore do not hold copy invoices.
Your email will not be forwarded.
Regards
Invoice Finance"

WTF!?

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Cheshire


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Professional and helpful. Not.

Bit like the company I phoned, cannot even recall what they were called. Press 1 for x, 2 for y.......etc went on for ever. Press the one I wanted...message 'we do not deal with this over the phone, goodbye'......dead phone tone!!!!!!

Other one Im having problems with is the local council who give 30 day terms for the refuse collections. Direct debit set up, but they are taking it for the invoice dated one- two days earlier, rather than the invoice a month earlier. So pay by D/D and you get no terms and they then chase for an unpaid invoice from the month prior. When challenged the response was 'well you would get 1-2 days extra credit and our ledgers would be out. Why is that my problem? Offer the d/d collection on the correct bloody day then, because just now you are breaking the terms of the actual contract we have both signed up to. Flurry of activity.....call back anticipated tomorrow from the head of the waste division! Numpties!


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 Joanne 

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VinceH


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Hehe - that phone menu sounds like a good way to avoid talking to certain people; pretend to be a menu, and eventually end the call like that. :)

"Direct debit set up, but they are taking it for the invoice dated one- two days earlier, rather than the invoice a month earlier. So pay by D/D and you get no terms and they then chase for an unpaid invoice from the month prior."

Huh? Doesn't that mean after the first invoice will ALWAYS be outstanding, and increasingly overdue?

i.e.:

  • invoice 1 raised 1st Jan.
  • Invoice 2 raised 1st Feb.
  • DD taken (say) 3rd Feb for invoice 2.
    • Invoice 1 is now just over a month old, and is now overdue if terms are 30 days.
  • Invoice 3 raised 1st Mar.
  • DD taken 3rd Mar for invoice 3.
    • Invoice 1 is now just over two months old - over 30 days overdue.
  • Invoice 4 raised 1st Apr
  • DD taken 3rd Apr for invoice 4.
    • Invoice 1 is now just over three months old - and two months overdue.
  • And so on.

The only way I can see that's possibly being avoided the way they're doing it is if they're reallocating each month in response to calls/complaints - which is counterproductive and inefficient compared with, oh I dunno, doing it right in the first place.

But then... it's a local council.

Going back to the HSBC invoice finance thing - while I was on the road, I remembered something: I spoke to them on the phone a while back (year? maybe more)  to sort out some screwed up allocations where they were clearly ignoring my remittance advices. That very call prompted me to add something to the version of the remittance advices that goes to factoring companies.

I'm on my Linux machine now, but I have Sage set up so that I receive a CC'd copy, which I hold onto for a couple of months, so thanks to the joy of IMAP I can pull a copy of one out and paste in that text. At the top, underneath the supplier details and payment date, it says:

********************************************************************************
                  PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE THIS REMITTANCE ADVICE
                 PLEASE READ THE IMPORTANT NOTE AT THE BOTTOM!
********************************************************************************

And the important note at the bottom says:

********************************************************************************
                         IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ!               

It has come to my attention that some factoring companies have been ignoring
these remittance advices, and/or the reference information included with the
payments where it is possible to include it, and simply allocating payments
received from us against the oldest invoices outstanding for their clients.

This could cause problems and disputes further down the line - if an older item
remains outstanding, there is probably a good reason for it. Please, therefore,
allocate payments according to the information given to you in this remittance
advice - do not allocate payments arbitrarily.
******************************************************************************** 

Obviously a complete waste of time adding that, because they're clearly still faffing things up.


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Cheshire


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Absolutely spot on re the first invoice. I received a statement from them, showing the first one o/s, thought 'numpties will spot it, sort it', but then realised they wouldn't when they sent the next statement with the same invoice o/s.
Not sure why hav still have this faith in humans to sort stuff out!!!

They are a right useless bunch of twonks!! I put in a formal complaint in in the end after months of ridiculous to-ing and fro-ing, and after getting emails full of complete jibberish even if you stripped out the daftness of the overdue invoice. Jibberish as in totally indecipherable sentences from one of their staff who for the life of him cannot seem to string two words together.

They are to of use issuing invoices on 25th of each month, dated 6 days later as well. Can't wait for tomorrow's call as my client has had a very competitive quote from elsewhere so they are in for a bumpy ride.

I think you might be better typing 'DO ignore the following instructions!' Typically these factoring companies moan like mad when they don't get remittances, but ignore them when they do.

I say bobsing about, you say faffing things up.

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VinceH


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Grr.

Add Ultimate Finance to the list of useless Factoring Companies.

Email today threatening of legal action over two invoices due just over a month ago. Checking my self-CC'd remittance advices, I can see a remittance advice email detailing a payment for those very invoices, on time.

I'm not at that client today, so I can't check anything beyond that - but it's a safe bet the payment went through smoothly. For one thing, I know the bank is reconciled up to a few days ago, so I'd know about a failed payment from over a month ago - and I know the payment was to Ultimate Finance and not their client/my client's supplier, because of the way I do payments and subsequent remittance emails.

So what's almost certainly gone wrong is that they've ignored the remittance advice - and the reference information on the payment itself - and allocated it somewhere else.

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Cheshire


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Double Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Not only do folk ignore the remittance advices, but generally FFS - why cant people answer the F Qs? How in hell can we as professionals give proper advice if we get half baked F responses?

Oh yeah, I forgot, we obviously ask so many Qs just for the hell of it and because we have sooooooooooo much spare time!

 

Edited to add

the 2nd FFS moment of today (and its only Monday!!)   phone call from a business who provide credit reports  - how to help you with your MLR in time for MTD?  WTF?????    She thought cos they do the MLR checks online that it met MTD.  Her line of 'well you will have to do everything online' met with the derision it deserved.     Wanted me to login whilst she was talking to me so she can show me their system. Well surely I can just sign up for a 'free Trial' via that big red button on your website. Oh no ....that just means your details will go through to  a sales team and they will phone you with your login and p/w details. Secure then!!!!  Efficient then!!!!   Im not adding their website link to aid their SEO, but re-arrange the words SAfe and Credit.   Anyone use them?     Apparently got my number via keying in 'Accountants near me'' - WTF??? She was based in Cardiff and I am nowhere near Wales unless I go out for a day tip out over to Anglesey, and dont have a website!!!!! FFS



-- Edited by Cheshire on Monday 18th of June 2018 12:03:41 PM

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 Joanne 

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Cheshire


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3rd FFS of the day - trying to navigate your way round the Disclosure and Barring Service online account. The bloody thing wants your p/w, 50 s/r Qs answered and the pin number it sends by text every time you try to click on another subject heading. 50 x worse than the HMRC site and thats saying something.

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 Joanne 

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Cheshire wrote:

Double Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Not only do folk ignore the remittance advices, but generally FFS - why cant people answer the F Qs? How in hell can we as professionals give proper advice if we get half baked F responses?

Oh yeah, I forgot, we obviously ask so many Qs just for the hell of it and because we have sooooooooooo much spare time!

 

Edited to add

the 2nd FFS moment of today (and its only Monday!!)   phone call from a business who provide credit reports  - how to help you with your MLR in time for MTD?  WTF?????    She thought cos they do the MLR checks online that it met MTD.  Her line of 'well you will have to do everything online' met with the derision it deserved.     Wanted me to login whilst she was talking to me so she can show me their system. Well surely I can just sign up for a 'free Trial' via that big red button on your website. Oh no ....that just means your details will go through to  a sales team and they will phone you with your login and p/w details. Secure then!!!!  Efficient then!!!!   Im not adding their website link to aid their SEO, but re-arrange the words SAfe and Credit.   Anyone use them?     Apparently got my number via keying in 'Accountants near me'' - WTF??? She was based in Cardiff and I am nowhere near Wales unless I go out for a day tip out over to Anglesey, and dont have a website!!!!! FFS



-- Edited by Cheshire on Monday 18th of June 2018 12:03:41 PM

Hi Joanne

Not used them myself, but apparently they have a reputation for hard sell, and are a bit like double glazing salesmen when it comes to their pricing model.



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Leger wrote:

Hi Joanne

Not used them myself, but apparently they have a reputation for hard sell, and are a bit like double glazing salesmen when it comes to their pricing model.

 Thanks for the info John, just popped them on my blocked list!



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Cheshire


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3 freeloaders in one day. 



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 Joanne 

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Leger


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Cheshire wrote:

3 freeloaders in one day. 

 That's because its a special day and you deserved a treat biggrin biggrin

(GDPR forbids me from being more specific lol) 



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Cheshire


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Leger wrote:

 you deserved a treat biggrin biggrin

 

 On 20th? I think not.  Although I bought cakes at one of my clients yesterday and then got into a very, let's just say, interesting conversation when I mentioned the words 'lunch box' to one of the guys, with interpretations clearly widely differing as to the meaning. 10 minutes of raucous laughter and not from me!  Not sure quite why I get myself into so much hot water at that place EVERY time I visit (male dominated, no idea what political correctness means and often described as 'me bird' by one of the Directors), so I had a double treat yesterday with the freeloaders, one of whom you soft lot took pity on!

Ok, yeah, before someone says something, I know, I know, it also teaches the young whippersnapper bookkeepers, blur blur blur. (This one is also getting away with advertising her non bookkeeping business as well as believing the hype of the 'lets put your receipts into your iphone and magically produce accounts' software brigade who advertise their wares with an bloody coffee shop receipt, so I suppose it's to be expected that such naivety, or foolishness,  continues to flourish).



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 Joanne 

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Leger


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Hi Joanne

I haven't heard the expression lunch box for a very very long time, well since Linford Christie I think!

Sorry you had to put up with their chauvinistic behaviour.

My treat reference was intended for Thursday, I hadn't realised they had posted Wednesday.

 

"This one is also getting away with advertising her non bookkeeping business"

Crafty, I never even looked for that.  (SEO on the profile page Shaun)

On a general note on freeloaders the majority won't realise that this is a site for bookkeepers etc.  They land here after searching google. I still say the site needs to make it harder to sign up, with a box to tick whether you are in the accounting profession.  Either that or make the site private, but then Steve relies on the advertising income so maybe that's a no no.



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Artois


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Leger wrote:

On a general note on freeloaders the majority won't realise that this is a site for bookkeepers etc.  They land here after searching google. I still say the site needs to make it harder to sign up, with a box to tick whether you are in the accounting profession.

Hi John,

Do you not have to do that on Aweb to join? not sure if it is still the case but I am sure I had to when I first joined, but you only have to read some of the questions on there to see that it does not seem to stop the BO's (as Joanne would call them)

Even though I do agree about freeloaders, as you say some do post questions unaware that this is a site for professionals and I must admit that it is quite amusing to see some of the responses  biggrin  



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Cheshire


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So its just me then who checks a website name if nothing else to see if Im even in the correct part of the world?

Or indeed that I not on some random P bloody interest or net flippin mums or password pinching dodgy site or whatever, where I might be getting totally inappropriate advcie for my query (equivalent of the pal down the pub syndrome)? Freeloaders are not that dumb, even though they often come across as such or play at it. Although I have to say that one appears to have some issues - no gdpr on their site (one good thing about them leaving their dirty links) and also a bit of dissociative personality disorder going on with their accounts at Companies House (which is what I was going to add as another reason for getting an Accountant, but then decided I couldnt be arsed!

Thank you John for remembering - the summer solstice event makes it easy to do so. It was a good night out! My new favourite tipple- a B52 (but with a green melon add in rather than the orange)

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 Joanne 

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Cheshire


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Those moments when you utter "FFS"
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After the dumbest quote yesterday about 'most people would be the same' I do wonder about the state of basic education in this country and the fact that folk cant just seem to use the brains they were born with.

www.youtube.com/watch



-- Edited by Cheshire on Sunday 24th of June 2018 12:55:45 PM

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 Joanne 

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Leger


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Cheshire wrote:



Although I have to say that one appears to have some issues - no gdpr on their site (one good thing about them leaving their dirty links) and also a bit of dissociative personality disorder going on with their accounts at Companies House (which is what I was going to add as another reason for getting an Accountant, but then decided I couldnt be arsed!

Thank you John for remembering - the summer solstice event makes it easy to do so. It was a good night out! My new favourite tipple- a B52 (but with a green melon add in rather than the orange)

 FFS, I see what you mean, how the hell did they not get rejected?

The B52 looks a good drink, but I think if I tried it I would stick to the orange as I'm not keen on lemon.  Years ago I used to drink Black Russian, you could get it in one of the local pubs quite cheap.

 



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VinceH


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'king xero.

And no, I'm not declaring it to be royalty. Note the apostrophe.

I've started receiving 'payment reminders' for a client from a number of their suppliers that are using it*.

For invoices that have been paid - and the suppliers notified with an emailed remittance advice at the time.

For example, in amongst the latest batch that I have in my inbox, one is reminding me that a particular invoice was due for payment on 6th June (singled out because it's the oldest of this batch). When was it paid? 6th June.

The problem is the effing suppliers not updating it with the payment (whether manually or via the bank feed) - and that (I believe) Xero can send these reminders automatically.

The word that springs to mind here is desensitised: It's a similar problem that some people experience with computers and error boxes - if you see unimportant ones too often, you become desensitised to the error and clear them without reading them properly, and then don't notice something a little more important.

That's what'll happen with payment reminders from Xero. At the moment, I feel the need to check them because I can't remember the details of every payment to every supplier. But if I keep getting them and as with all those so far, they're wrong, I'll eventually just start ignoring them - or worse, add a filter to stop getting them in the first place.

The brilliance and benefit of cloud software.

FFS!



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Cheshire


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FFS! FFS! FFS! FFS! FFS!

 

Just had a phone call from NPower (client's power supplier), saying they are partnered with Bibby and were we interested in their services. 

This client is in a predominantly cash based industry (credit terms about 2% if that) - so Ive just told the caller to do his research properly before calling and also given him a quick training session on how factoring/invoice discounting works in the vain hope that he wont call any other obvious cash based businesses.   

I did forget to say how c**p Bibby are, oops.

Whatever next?!

                                                                                                               FFS!



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 Joanne 

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VinceH


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I've had a 'remittance advice' email forwarded to me by a client (from one of their customers).

The email doesn't contain the advice, though - instead it contains a link to download it. My first thought was "ho hum, I'll probably have to tell the client to download it because he has a log-in" - but I went ahead and followed the link.

The web page asks for the email address the email was sent to - so I put that in, expecting the next page to ask for a password.

Nope. It gave me the remittance advice.

Security? I'm sure they've heard of it, FFS!

This customer used to send remittance advices as attachments to the email. I'm guessing this is an attempt at complying with GDPR or something (probably for more than just remittance advices). If someone intercepted the email previously, they could just open the PDF. Now, they'd have to guess at the email address, because they surely wouldn't be able to work it out from the email headers, would they, oh no!

(It's probably not possible to simply probe for documents intended for others, because the URL includes an "id" that almost certainly pertains to that specific document - but still, *basic* security consists of two things: An ID and a password. An email address is an ID, so the security here is an ID in the URL (in the email) and an ID (in the headers).

Head -> Desk.


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Leger


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VinceH wrote:

This customer used to send remittance advices as attachments to the email. I'm guessing this is an attempt at complying with GDPR or something (probably for more than just remittance advices). If someone intercepted the email previously, they could just open the PDF. Now, they'd have to guess at the email address, because they surely wouldn't be able to work it out from the email headers, would they, oh no!

 Hi Vince

Well they tried bless 'em, but obviously didn't put enough thought into what they were doing.



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VinceH


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Hi John,

It's actually worse than I thought - after posting the above (the email was still open) I spotted underneath the link that it said *in the body of the email* words to the effect of "When prompted for an email address use: " followed by the address. So no need to even look at the headers.

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VinceH


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Clients that can't be arsed to do things, so you have to take the bull by the horns.

In this case, the client is a nightmare for producing supplier invoices etc - and then complain when the VAT bill is higher than they'd like. I learned a long time ago that the main guy who deals with paying bills and so on (who doubles up and also works on the factory floor, so to speak (it's not actually a factory) uses his email inbox as an unpaid bills file: Any invoice that is emailed remains in his inbox until it is paid - so if it's valid for inclusion in a particular VAT quarter, but hasn't been *paid* in that VAT quarter, I won't see it until it is.

Taking the bull by the horns in this case was to add a filter to his email client searching for key words (invoice, receipt, etc) and have anything that matches it forwarded to me.

Unsurprisingly, this means I see more than I should - for example, if he makes any personal purchases using his work email address.

Today I'm looking through the emails forwarded to me, and I've found scans of a *customer's* passport - picked up by the filter because they were in a chain of replies to an email that started out as a supplier's invoice (relating to an overseas job).

So I'm going to extend the usual "FFS" for this comment to "GDPR, FFS!" - but the bottom line is the filter/forward is the best solution to the problem.

Face, meet palm.



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VinceH


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Long time no see, old thread! :D

I had a potential new client on the phone yesterday. He'd always done his books himself (just a simple self employment jobbie) but had been advised to register for VAT (well below the threshold, but B2B sales), so decided he'd better get a professional to deal with his books from that point. Which sounds fair enough.

Until I started discussing the nitty gritty with him. It was a long conversation that got to this point, so I'll skip that - the important bit was: He thought he could claim back VAT on all of his supplies, even if the supplier wasn't VAT registered. I explained to him (several times) that it doesn't work like that, but he really didn't like my answer.

In the end, he decided he didn't want to use me because I wouldn't be claiming all of his VAT back, and he was going to try a few more people. Presumably, he'd keep on trying different people until it eventually sank in.

I reckon I could probably have got that point to sink in eventually, but really I'm glad he went elsewhere. I suspect he'd have also been a nightmare in other ways.

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Artois


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 He has probably done you a favour by going elsewhere, sounds like you have saved yourself from a lot more grief further down the line.

I did have something similar a while back with someone I had registered for VAT, he brought me a load of receipts for all his personal/household purchases because he thought that because he had been charged VAT he could then reclaim it, but in fairness he did understand this was not allowed rather quickly.  



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VinceH


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Today, I had to write another of my "more annoyed" emails to a factoring company. This time Hitachi.

The essence is that I received a letter at a client from them, introducing themselves as factors for a supplier - but I spotted that their bank details differed from other suppliers who use Hitachi, so I wanted to verify them before making any payment, for reasons that should be obvious.

Take note of the last couple of paragraphs in particular.
HittingHitachi.png



-- Edited by VinceH on Wednesday 16th of January 2019 12:16:39 PM

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Leger


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Remind me not to deal with clients using a factoring companies Vince, you seem to get more than your share of problems from them.



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Cheshire


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Leger wrote:

Remind me not to deal with clients using a factoring companies Vince, you seem to get more than your share of problems from them.

Pass them my way John, love a bit of factoring and invoice discounting. wink

Although Vince you do seem plagued by this one!!!!!

Ive had a different FFS moment today.  The uttered those words 'I think its time you found yourself another bookkeeper'......all Ive heard is ping ping ping ping ping.....emails dropping in with all the info Ive been chasing.  



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 Joanne 

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VinceH


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John: "Remind me not to deal with clients using a factoring companies Vince, you seem to get more than your share of problems from them."

You misunderstood slightly - it's not my client using a factoring company, but one (of quite a lot of) their suppliers; the email above was from me (representing the company) in response to the factoring company chasing for payment of an invoice from their client/our supplier.

Joanne: "Although Vince you do seem plagued by this one!!!!!"

Yeah, it's a combination of things. My client is a same day courier, and they use a lot of subcontractors - many one man/one van owner driver types. They use an online system that allows companies like theirs to input individual job details and receive quotes from the one man/van lot. As a result, although there are some suppliers I see regularly, I also see a ridiculous number of one-offs.

I don't access it myself, but I understand the online system advertises one of the factoring companies to new sign-ups, so many people starting out in that game sign up to factoring at the start.

That means I see a quite a lot of factored subcontract owner-drivers with varying levels of understanding what they're doing. (Although in the case under discussion this time, the problem is nothing to do with the subby; the fault here lies with the factoring company not responding to emails and telephone calls).

 

 

 



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Leger


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VinceH wrote:

John: "Remind me not to deal with clients using a factoring companies Vince, you seem to get more than your share of problems from them."

You misunderstood slightly - it's not my client using a factoring company, but one (of quite a lot of) their suppliers; the email above was from me (representing the company) in response to the factoring company chasing for payment of an invoice from their client/our supplier. 

Do'h of course.  



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Cheshire


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FFS
Email received from a customer of one of my clients

Good Afternoon,

Hope all is well.

Once again here is a quick reminder.

Please send us an up to date statement for xxx to ensure that all of your account is up to date.
Please send to boughtledger@xxx email as it is constantly monitored.

Please note: Failure to do so could cause delays in making payments.

 

Ok I dont have an issue as such with the email, only that it has been sent twice in two days. 

OK I do have issues with it as this is two months after the invoice was actually paid and the account cleared in full, so why they cannot strip 'nil returns' from their database I have no clue.

Oh and that they think someone who is owed money isnt going to chase them/send statements!

Oh and that it is the suppliers 'responsibility' to ensure there is no failure by them in making payments on time.

Bloody waste of my time.

 

Their response when I told them to stop sending me such nonesense   ''These emails are just a reminder so that we can stay up to date with the payments. Many thanks for your time! ''

I think I might start emailing them saying - please send me a full list of account activity since our account was opened with you so I can check to our records and send you a statement. Well might as well join in with their nonesense!



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