Help Needed! I don't know what software to buy for my startup business - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

DonaldsonJobs · Member

Help Needed! I don't know what software to buy for my startup business

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Beshlie,

Accountants will try to guide you towards the software which is best for them which may not coincide with the software that is best for you.

If you are sure that you need software rather than simply recording everything using Excel then I'm sure that a recruitment company wouldn't need anything larger than Sage Instant accounts wich compared to everything else that Sage do is actually quite reasonable (about £80 from Amazon for the basic version including 45 days free support).

Don't go anywhere near Sage Payroll which is not a cost effective sollution for your business. Instead have a look at these two payroll packages and then decide which one is right for you :

12pay

Moneysoft Payroll.

Hope that helps and welcome to the forum,

kind regards,

Shaun.

P.S. Good luck with the new venture.

DonaldsonJobs · Member

Hi Shaun,

Thanks very much for replying so quickly. I had a feeling it would be overkill for to go for the Instant Suite for such a small business. We anticipate turnover of £100-150k pa so we are small fry in the grand scheme of things!

I would like to just use excel as I won't be having lots of invoices coming in and it is a fairly simple business model.

The part which I am a bit wary of is the payroll as I have no experience. I will check out these packages you have recommended and see how they look.

Do you think I would be ok with just the 45 days free support? I am ok with IT and databases etc but no idea about bookkeeping!

Thanks for your help!

Beshlie

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

If you are going to go for Sage Instant rather than Excel it might be a good idea to do a CD based course on it first.

There is a version that comes with a 180 day trial version of the software but it costs as much as the full version of the software costs. See here :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sage-Instant-Accounts-Study-Course/dp/1906048495/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1333386339&sr=1-1-catcorr

However, if you learnt the software you should have less need of support so balance the cost of the training against Sage support and it also defers purchase of the software by six months whilst you use the fully functional trial version.

Don't know if you want it but the course in a box also comes with Sage certification which would normally be £50 all on its own.

HTH,

Shaun.

DonaldsonJobs · Member

Thanks very much Shaun - I have had a look at 12Pay and I think I will be fine using that for payroll.
I have also just bought the Sage Instant Accounts Study Course which will see me through the first 6 months and hopefully give me a good grounding on Sage.
Thanks so much for your help - it has saved me about £200.
Take care,
Beshlie

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

DonaldsonJobs wrote:

Thanks so much for your help - it has saved me about £200.

Oops, just forgot to get your billing adress for the advice. lol.

take care of you too, hope that the business really takes off.

kind regards,

Shaun.

Tom McClelland · Senior Member

DonaldsonJobs wrote:
Thanks very much Shaun - I have had a look at 12Pay and I think I will be fine using that for payroll.

Let me know if you have any queries.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Can I send you an invoice as well Tom... I'm on a roll here... Now where's that brochure for beach condo's in Thailand biggrin

semsley · Guru

I've just recommended 12 Pay to one of my clients (changing from Sage 50 Payroll which she was sold for 4 employees!!!) she's well pleased.

DonaldsonJobs · Member

Thanks everyone, I might back if I need any more help!
It's really good to get impartial feedback.
Thanks,
Beshlie

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

I totally concur with the previous two replies.

VT Cashbook is a freebie to give to end users to record their transactions and save themselves a bit of money and us a bit of time.

As a professional one would at a minimum be looking at VT Transaction+.

Personally I use VT Accounts which includes VT Transaction+. Even where not required to provide a set of books I still do to ensure that everything is how I would expect it to be... Then again, I'm the sort of person who on occassion uses a calculator then does it manually to make sure that the calculator got the answer right!

As Mark states, if your business model is simple enough as to only require VT Cashbook then Excel may be all that you need.

On the Sage instants front it was only ever a 180 day trial version of the software in order to practice however there is no reason why you should not practice using real company data so that your training is specific to your future requirements and then as you say, at the end of the trial period purchase the real software and go live with it.

My understanding of the Sage licencing is that the trial software should not be used for commercial purposes. Training though is training regardles as to whether live data is used or not. The proviso is that you have no intention to use the trial software commercially which of course you don't as by the time that you are up to speed with the software and ready for period end you will be using the real software.

I know that many people used the Sage 50 tutorials trial software to take the ICB computerised exams which used to (no longer) involve loading up various companies from CD in order to do the various mock exams and then the qualifications.

If your already peeved off with Sage then download the two month trial of VT Transaction+ and use that instead until you've finished your Sage training and then make the decision as to whether to buy Sage or VT as you will by then be thougherly proficient with both.

Of course, if you go Sage you will need to re-enter all of your input into Sage from VT. Would that be a lot of transactions in two months.

The only restriction that VT put on their software during the trial period (which is a generous two months) is that the iXBRL filing in the accounts package is disabled. Absolutely everything else is the full live version of the software and you can set up and play with as many companies as you like.

Not actually sure what Louise believes is missing from VT that makes it unsuitable for recruitment agencies? Then again, I don't have any recruitement agencies and she does so I'll bow to her greater knowledge on the subject.

HTH,

Shaun.

p.s. edited due to absolutely awful spelling... And still not sure that I've picked up all of the spellign mistakes!

-- Edited by Shamus on Monday 30th of April 2012 04:29:01 PM

Figurate · Senior Member

DonaldsonJobs wrote:

Just one question on VT - if i went for them after the free 2 months would I need to input all the data again?

Thanks,

Beshlie

No, you won't need to re-enter all your data again biggrin

-- Edited by Figurate on Monday 30th of April 2012 06:34:48 PM

DonaldsonJobs · Member

Hi Shaun,

I have bought the sage instant accounts study course and i have been working through the workbooks.

The only problem is that I have been inadvertently setting up a mock company instead of my own company. I just called sage and they say that you can't use this version of the software for a real company - do you know if this is true?

I was hoping to use it for 6 months then export the data into a proper version of sage when this one runs out.

I thought i would come back to you to see if you know if I can do this or if i need to go and buy a proper sage software package?

Thanks so much for your help,

Beshlie

MarkS · Expert

HI Beshlie

What SAGE say is true. The study course is for just that. Using to study how to use SAGE it shouldnt be used for a real life company. After your 180 days expires you wont be able to use this version

So if you want to maintain your own accounts then would need to buy the proper version.

Regards

MarkS

DonaldsonJobs · Member

Hi Mark,

Thanks for replying.

I am gutted as I spent £80 on this software and I thought I would be able to use it for the first 6 months.

Now I know I can't use it I will still do the training as I am sure I will want to use sage in the future.

For now, I can't afford to buy another product so I am looking at VT Cash. Do you have any thoughts on this software?

Many thanks,

Beshlie

MarkS · Expert

Hi Belshie

I have VT to do my year end accounts but havent used either VT transactions or VT cash as a bookkeeping option. My preference is SAGE and that is what i use for all my clients as my training is in SAGE (have used it for over 15 years) as well as being SAGE accredited and teaching SAGE at a local enterprise company.

Others on here such as Shaun swear by VT but at the end of the day it comes down to what package doing what you need it to do at the right price.

It may be that excel is sufficient for your needs but without seeing what your accounting records are like and what you are needing from the software it is difficult to say.

What i would recommend is going to speak to a local accountant who is experienced in a variety of different accounting packages and see what they recommend. It may be that your accountant just tends to steer clients in the direction of SAGE rather than having a knowledge of a few different packages.

Regards

MarkS

Figurate · Senior Member

Hi,
I look after a couple of recruitment agencies, and would say that VT Cashbook, as fabulous as it is, probably won't be up to the job of bookkeeping for a recruitment agency.
As it happens, I'm using Sage for the ones I look after (Sage Instant is perfectly adequate), but online offerings, such as Kashflow et al would work just as well, as well as VT Software's full bookkeeping package, VT Transaction
If you have are using a recruitment client database, some of those providers offer a "bookkeeping" back office system (it really does depend on how integrated and specialist you want to go)
It might be worth bearing in mind that there are specialist "bolt ons" for Sage specifically for the recruitment industry (may be something to bear in mind for the future, as opposed to right now)

Regarding payroll, you might find it more cost-effective to contract your payroll out, as otherwise, you will spend a lot of your time doing payroll admin and chasing timesheets etc... and you will be tied to doing a regular payroll which may become an unwieldy drain on your time as you grow.
(I can recommend one that works exclusively with recruitment agencies. Disclaimer - I don't have any connection with them)
That said, I have heard good things about 12Pay, and also recommend MoneySoft, too.

Wella · Expert

Shamus wrote:
p.s. edited due to absolutely awful spelling... And still not sure that I've picked up all of the spellign mistakes!

-- Edited by Shamus on Monday 30th of April 2012 04:29:01 PM

Shaun have you tried the spell check button in the reply box? or if using Google, the spell checker?

Saves a bit of time, as you can select correct spelling before submitting post.

Bill

PS couldn't help myself, highlighting the spelling mistake in your ps (realise it is a typo, rather than spelling mistake smile )

Rhianrach · Expert

Shamus wrote:

p.s. edited due to absolutely awful spelling... And still not sure that I've picked up all of the spellign mistakes!

-- Edited by Shamus on Monday 30th of April 2012 04:29:01 PM

It's an old joke but still tickles me smile

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Doh!

DonaldsonJobs · Member

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I am only doing permanent recruitment so it won't be a lot of invoices so from what I have read here I think the VT will be fine. I have downloaded the cash and the transaction trial, so I will get going with that. Like you say Shaun, if I use the VT for 2 months and also do the Sage training in 2 months I will then be able to make a decision on which one to go for.

Just one question on VT - if i went for them after the free 2 months would I need to input all the data again?

Thanks,

Beshlie

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Beshlie,

no. Absolutely not. The data that you enter is completely usable by the program when you buy the lecence to use it.

Thats the great thing. You've basically got the full version of the software which will work (except for iXBRL filing) exactly as if paid for for the whole two months then on the 60th day after download it will simply stop working until you pay for it.

All of your data is stored in .VTR extension files that you can save and take from one machine to another and just open them without any of Sages licencing sillyness.

The licencing is for the lower of the number of machines or the number of users so if you have a machine at home and one in the office and it's only you using the two then you buy one licence and then move data around on a memory stick or as an email attachment.

As many companies as you need and multiple machines on a single user licence. Why does anyone use anything else!

Actually, I know the answer to that.

It's not as pretty as Sage or QB and you do need to understand double entry bookkeeping a lot more than with the other two products. However, that's not to say that it's difficult to use, it's just a little different to the other offerings out there.

HTH,

Shaun.

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Beat me to it Louise.

Figurate · Senior Member

LOL, that's because I went for "short & sweet", this time

DonaldsonJobs · Member

Thanks very much Shaun and Louise.
I will try to get my head round it all over the next couple of months.
Lucky I actually quite like this stuff, well so far anyway!
Thanks,
Beshlie

Trojan1970 · Senior Member

Aha - a thread I can finally contribute some usuful info to, rather than just posting questions all the time!

Beshlie, I've been doing payroll and bookkeeping in recruitment agencies for about 20 years. The bigger agencies have bespoke back office solutions (as previously mentioned in this thread), but if you're only doing Perm then you shouldn't need anything too fancy to be going on with.

Have you looked at the HMRC Basic Tools for running your PAYE payroll? (I assume it's only head office staff you'll be paying as you're not running any Temps?) It's free to download and very simple to use. This link to Business Link will help you down load it (hope it works, never posted a link on here ........fingers crossed).

http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/layer?.l1=1073858808&r.l2=1083106843&r.l3=1083106693&r.s=tl&topicId=1086857322

If it looks too complicated I would consider outsourcing your payroll. It's such an emotive subject that if you get it wrong people tend to get very upset very quickly. It would take a weight off your mind.

I would run an excel spreadsheet of all your perm sales, by date, client, candidate, start date, invoice date, value, discount, and when it was paid. If any of your placements are for less than a year (ie a further fee can be charged later on) then put a diary note to remind you to check with the client if the candidate has been extended so you can invoice a further fee (put a note on the original invoice that if the employment continues beyond such and such a futher fee will be due).

If your accountant is using Sage then they can import your data from Excel without too much trouble.

I hope this helps.

DonaldsonJobs · Member

Thanks Trojan.

I am using 12pay for the payroll which is just fine. It's only me and my husband who are on the payroll so I am happy with that.

For the accounts I will use VT I think and then take a view after 2 months to see if I shouldgo with sage or vt. I would like to use a system rather than just excel as I am new to all this I think it will help me to understand everything going in and out of the business.

Good idea about diarising further invoices due in future!

Thanks for your help everyone!