The Book-keepers Forum (BKF)

Post Info TOPIC: Running year end in Sage 50


Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 43
Date:
Running year end in Sage 50


I have a client who uses Sage 50.  I am not a bookkeeper and have never used Sage.  I have prepared the 2015 limited company accounts and provided the year end journals which she has entered.  I now need to collect the records for the 2016 year end.

The client says she has not run year end for 2015 or 2016 but I am not sure what this means.  What does she need to do in Sage before I can collect the 2016 records?  Does she need to reset any dates too?  She is also concerned about backups.

If she did not run the 2015 year end then does this mean the data I collected could now change when she runs year end?  What happens if you do not run year end?

Thanks in advance and I know this will be elementary to some who do this every day but I am not a Sage user.



__________________


Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 8646
Date:

Hi Hannah

Not doing the year end will prevent her getting PNL and Balance Sheet reports (she clearly doesnt need these!!!?!), but will in a couple of years make your job so much harder. Plus she is then not archiving her data so the system can become clogged and slow (depends on number of transactions and age of sage)


Encourage her to do backups as often as possible. You can do to a usb stick/dropbox - always more than one copy in case eg usb fails. Always check they work.

To back up - she needs to go to File--> Backup. It will ask if you wish to check data before you back up - always click yes --> Let that run - wont take long--> Check the errors/warnings/comments - need to resolve these (pop them on here if she gets any, or PM me if you want help with any of these). -->click close-->save backup (change file name to add some detail other than the date if you want eg pre year end routine run/post year end routine/post VAT etc. -->Test back up by doing a restore (BUT care she picks the right file!)

If she doesnt run a backup (which frankly knowing the messes Ive seen would be playing with fire!) - then at least do the data check routine regularly. I picked up a client who did neither - had fatal errors which prevented them using sage at all!!! Unless they paid a lot of money to sage for support, or knows a gal who between her mates can help drag it up to date!

So get her to do a backup FIRST (pre year end routine).

So year end routine.
After the backup.
I always run a few reports to make sure I have them as backup eg TB, PNL, Balance sheet, nominal activity (excluding no transactions) for just the year in question, debtors, creditors and Audit trail. (If she doesnt know how - post here)

Change the system date to the date of the year end ie 2015 year -->Settings (from top toolbar) --> Change program date  -->yes to the message -->change date--> ok.  This date will show on the bottom right of her sage screen now.

-->Tools (from the top bar)-->period end-->year end-->check the details (different for different versions of sage. might say - when do you want the journals running - use the LAST working day of the year. will confirm the start of the new year. archive option) -->run (or ok)

When you've run it - check the date on the bottom of the sage screen shows the first month of the next financial period.

Re-set your program date to today and run a backup.

Run nominal reports (excluding no transactions) using the b/f option (this is above all the other dates on this report criteria options box, or may be just a tick box option depending on the version of sage) - check THESE b/fwd balances to your records. If you asked for the year end journals to be keyed on the last working day they should match what you have. If they dont then it means she has keyed something with a wrong date perhaps and she will need to have a look for that.

Before you run the 2016 year end.
Check the figures are ok and in line with your 2015 year. Normally I would do this as soon as the adjusting journals are done. But as its too far past that time and she has no back up/would be too much re-keying if she did use a backup then you may just have to do some additional journals for sage to match your workings.

Get the same reports as listed above, showing b/fwds.  You can then do your 'stuff'  

if you are doing your journals on the last day I would say wait until she has keyed then before running the 2016 year end, if on the first day, run it now as above.

Further help

If you need anything else - please get the sage 50 type (eg standard/professional etc?)  and version info (-->Help option-->About-->version number), then feel free to post. Im in meeting with clients the rest of the week so will only be dipping in and out of here, so if its urgent PM me and I will see what I can do

Hope that helps

 



__________________

 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 43
Date:

Joanne

Thanks so much, really appreciate your detailed post when you are so busy.

I will let you know if the client manages it.

Hannah

__________________


Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 8646
Date:

You are very welcome Hannah. Happy to hand hold if you need.

__________________

 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 259
Date:

Hi Hannah,

I'm over simplifying but, I think, the year end process is mainly to do with keeping the nominal period buckets right and transferring the P&L result for the year to the designated retained earnings account.

Instead of becoming involved in the client's year end / backup issues, perhaps you could have your client run some transational reports in the Finance section of Sage Report Designer for you? The transactional reports don't use the nominal period buckets and, consequently, are pretty much unaffected by Sage year end issues. Three reports will be useful: the Transactional Trial Balance; the Transactional Profit & Loss; and, the Transactional Balance Sheet. You'd want two copies of the Transactional Trial Balance - one for 1/1/1980 to your year end (to give your balance sheet nominal values (retained earnings will be the sum of all the P&L nominals plus the retained earnings account)) and the other for the date span of the current year (that will give you the nominal breakdown of the current year profit and the balance sheet account movements). Both the Transactional Profit & Loss and Transactional Balance Sheet should be run for the date span of the current year. If you want belt and braces, you could ask for all the reports for the previous year end too.

If you pass on Joanne's very helpful guidance re year end / backup, I'm sure your client will be very grateful. Meanwhile, with the transactional reports in hand, you'll be able to progress with your work without worrying about the resolution of your client's Sage issues.

Regards,

__________________

Ian

Ian Brown FCA
Onion Reporting Software Ltd

www.onionrs.co.uk

Sage accounts in Excel. No set-up necessary. Free 30 day trial.



Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 8646
Date:

Onion4Sage wrote:

Hi Hannah,

I'm over simplifying but, I think, the year end process is mainly to do with keeping the nominal period buckets right and transferring the P&L result for the year to the designated retained earnings account.

Instead of becoming involved in the client's year end / backup issues, perhaps you could have your client run some transational reports in the Finance section of Sage Report Designer for you? The transactional reports don't use the nominal period buckets and, consequently, are pretty much unaffected by Sage year end issues. Three reports will be useful: the Transactional Trial Balance; the Transactional Profit & Loss; and, the Transactional Balance Sheet. You'd want two copies of the Transactional Trial Balance - one for 1/1/1980 to your year end (to give your balance sheet nominal values (retained earnings will be the sum of all the P&L nominals plus the retained earnings account)) and the other for the date span of the current year (that will give you the nominal breakdown of the current year profit and the balance sheet account movements). Both the Transactional Profit & Loss and Transactional Balance Sheet should be run for the date span of the current year. If you want belt and braces, you could ask for all the reports for the previous year end too.

If you pass on Joanne's very helpful guidance re year end / backup, I'm sure your client will be very grateful. Meanwhile, with the transactional reports in hand, you'll be able to progress with your work without worrying about the resolution of your client's Sage issues.

Regards,


 Ive used these before Ian, but not for a long time - forgotten in fact they were even there.   You just get used to doing things in a certain way sometimes and forget what else you can drag out of sage.  Well of course - you wont!  biggrin



__________________

 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



Senior Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 259
Date:

Hi Joanne,

I have yet to fully investigate the myriad reports available in Sage. I'm learning all the time. It's just luck that I'm familiar with the transactional reports that might be useful for Hannah.

When developing our software, we quickly discovered that 'year end' issues were a real pain to deal with if Sage reporting was driven from the nominal period buckets. We didn't want our software's usefulness to be dependent on how well the customer managed the year end process. Consequently, we freed ourselves from those issues (and from any particular financial year) by basing all our reporting on transactions. As a result, we tend to regard the transactional reports in Sage as the definitive reports and run them in preference to others if they'll do the job.

Keep up the good work, it is much appreciated.

Regards



__________________

Ian

Ian Brown FCA
Onion Reporting Software Ltd

www.onionrs.co.uk

Sage accounts in Excel. No set-up necessary. Free 30 day trial.



Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 8646
Date:

Thank you Ian.....too kind!!

I wish I had more time to have a play with the reporting myself and a few other bits in sage. Am supposed to be learning about VT too. Not enough hours in the day!

__________________

 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 43
Date:

Thanks again both.

I am picking up the client's computer to get all the info so at least I have a few ways of extracting the info for 2016. I have not heard back whether she managed to run year end but I know that the balance in the BS was the same as the one in the accounts so I am happy that she posted all my journals and I think she is better with Sage than she thinks she is (and better than me!).

Please can you help with a different Sage question - I have the Director loan account at 5 April 2015 for the P11D beneficial loan interest. What is the balance on this date - is it the Account balance at the top? If so then what does the History Balance at the bottom mean?

Thanks

__________________


Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 8646
Date:

Hi Hannah
You will be able to see if she has run the year end easily enough once you get the PC. The bottom of the screen when you are logged in will show a month a year date eg June 2015 - means this is the first day of the financial year sage is working on. The other date is a xx/xx/xx is the date you log on or a system date.

Re the report you have - I am assuming you have a nominal activity excluding no trans report? If so then the balance at the top will show today's balance (or up to where she has keyed to). The history balance is the balance as at the last date your ordered the report for. Good way to check this actually is by using that report and then ordering a transaction report that Ian talks about - order a transactional TB on the 5th April and they two should match.

(I would normally caveat that with as long as the b/fwd balance sheet figures are ok)

__________________

 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 43
Date:

Thanks I don't have her Sage yet. I have the nominal activity report run to 5 April run in May. So the account balance at the top is the balance when the report was run and the history balance is the balance at 5 April.

__________________


Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 8646
Date:

Thats correct

__________________

 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 43
Date:

I now have the client's laptop and am trying to pull the May 2016 data. I have not managed to connect my printer so I saved the TB in an excel file and emailed it to myself.

There are loads of different dates and I am not finding it easy to extract data, can anyone please assist with the following:

1) How do I save the breakdown of each account into excel? I go into Nominal, I get the TB, I click on an account e.g., 7100 Rent. Then I go into Activity and it shows the activity from 2005 to May 2016. I have to click on Range to get the correct dates, why doesn't it just give the data for this year?

2) The date at the bottom of the screen is June 2015 - does this mean that she has run 31 May 2015 year end but has not run 31 May 2016 year end?

3) The date at the top says Y/E May 2014 (21/01/2015). I have no idea why it doesn't say the correct year end.

4) Once I have the data then how do I extract it into excel? Since I can't print it and don't fancy copying it then there must be a way. Can you save a report of a particular nominal code and how do you do that?

I am sure this is very basic to lots of people but not to me.

Thanks in advance

__________________


Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 8646
Date:

Can you tell me the version number? Go to top bar, far right, Help...About. Sage version .....

More later, on ipad now and not ideal for a few Qs as screen is small, besides I need to go and vote!

__________________

 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 43
Date:

Thanks Joanne. It is Sage 50 version 11.01.


__________________


Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 8646
Date:

Oh bloomin heck - was hoping you were going to say v19 or something.

Can you order all the reports in excel??? This sage version was one of the first with csv available from what i can recall. So if youve managed to do the TB you are most of the way there. If not....

Its do-able but on the face of it, it looks like Sage cant provide the reports in excel format, but not once for just after midnight Im afraid as Im having my own other software issues. Namely numptying round VT.

Can you advise how you got the TB into excel, as that might save me some time?

I will do an update tomorrow, unless of course someone beats me to it.

If not - just so you have somewhere to start in the morning:-

Date at the bottom of the screen being June 15 = start date for the year you are looking to do the accounts for.

This means she hasnt run the year end for 31 May 2016 yet - she should not have done yet, until you extracted the reports you need for the actual full year.

For now - go to 'company' on the left hand side, then it will list all the nominals. Go to TB at the very top and click on it, for the date, go first to the very first option above all the dates and choose b/fwd - check this to last years position. Then go to the same report section and get a report for month 12.

To get a nominal report between dates - dont go via each nominal. Go to reports-nominal activity-nominal activity excluding no transactions and tick the b/fwd box and set your dates from 1 June 2015 to 31 May 2016. This will not be in excel but can give you a start to check.

You can click on the generate and 'email' option - even if no email has been set up in sage, the system will attempt to start an email - all you need to do is grab the enclosed file, copy and paste to your own email

__________________

 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 8646
Date:

Just a quick one - did you manage to extract reports in excel Hannah?

Just want to check before I send you the rather long looking list of how to do so, but better if you dont need it, then I can just answer the o/s.

__________________

 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position



Veteran Member

Status: Offline
Posts: 43
Date:

Thanks I managed to load all the nominal ledger and extract it as csv so I have everything I need. I am still not sure about the dates and whether a blank reconciliation has ever been done but I have the info to prepare the accounts. I need to check the VAT return agrees to that submitted and the bank agrees to the bank statement so I can rely on the data.

I am going to recommend VTT+ going forward since I know it better and there aren't that many transactions.

So do not need the long email, thanks so much for your help. Let me know if I can help you on anything on VTT+ (although I tend to use the universal input sheet which I am told is not proper bookkeeping!).

__________________


Master Book-keeper

Status: Offline
Posts: 8646
Date:

Oh thats great Hannah - was thinking I wouldve scared you off with the instructions to get CSV going in sage, but sounds like your client has set it up already. It might be an old sage, but if its still working they may want to continue with it as sometimes its easier to stay with what you know, and if there arent that many transactions its not going to fall over any time soon, but with a little hand holding they could easily get into VT.

Let me know if you need any more help - I will try and dip in and out of here today.

Thanks for the offer on VTT+. Was tearing my hair out as I was trying to locate how to get into the extended TB, but it seems that the availability may have been removed. There are apparently other options, but Im yet to find them on mine. Also I have about 12 departments and was trying to get the P&L to copy across to excel in one go to include all the departments, but ended up doing each sheet manually. Not sure if thats a VT thing or just me not being that great on xl!



__________________

 Joanne 

Winner of Bookkeeper of the Year 2015, 2016 & 2017 

Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position

Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us
Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
©2007-2024 The Book-keepers Forum (BKF). All Rights Reserved. The Book-keepers Forum (BKF) is a trading division of Bookcert Ltd. Registered in England Company Number 05782923. 2 Laurel House, 1 Station Rd, Worle, Weston-super-Mare, North Somerset, BS22 6AR, United Kingdom. The Book-keepers Forum and BKF are trademarks of Bookcert Ltd. This forum is a discussion forum only. There will usually be more than one opinion to any question and any posting should not be viewed as a definitive solution. No responsibility for loss occasioned to any person acting or refraining from action as a result of any posting on this site is accepted by the contributors or The Book-keepers Forum. In all cases, appropriate professional advice should be sought before making a decision. We reserve the right to remove any postings which are offensive, libellous, self-promoting or engaged in covert marketing. We will not notify users of removals. The views expressed in the forum posts are those of the individual and do not necessary reflect or agree with those of The Book-keepers Forum. Any offensive or unsuitable posts will be removed by the moderators. Any reader of this forum can request for a post to be looked into by sending an email to: bookcertltd@gmail.com.

Privacy & Cookie Policy  About