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Post Info TOPIC: AAT to ACCA


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AAT to ACCA


£114 at the moment - Includes initial entry - free exemptions.

Bargain if you ask me.

 

http://www.accaglobal.com/uk/en/qualifications/accountancy-career/aat-acca.html



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You thinking of coming over to the dark side Johnny? We have cookies :D

Yes, there's a special deal for AAT members where you get enhanced exemption status.

Basically the ACCA normally charges you for each exam that you do not take and it takes the form of a guaranteed pass.

For people with AAT there is no charge for the exemptions, a small charge for admin (£29 currently) plus the annual student membership of £85.

I see it as a reward to AAT people for making the right choice.... Plus of course the ACCA is trying to bag as many AAT converts as they can before the ICAEW gets them.

.... And thats the difference that choosing AAT as your first qualification makes!







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He he. It is tempting!!! I'm starting to see how ACCA is more relevant to all sides of accountancy. ACCA can, with some employed experience, open more doors - different doors too. ACCA though is an all or nothing qualification - you need to complete it, get it signed, and abide by all rules. You do with CIMA, yet it's not so strict. I like the option of the BSc too mind....decisions, decisions. You can become a member without ever going near tax? I know you have to sit the tax units. I'm thinking of it from an industry perspective - I know without tax experience there is no practice licence. Just when you think you've made your mind up.....

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There's also an option of an MSc when you've taken all 14 papers.

you cannot get ACCA without passing a tax exam.

The way that it breaks down is this :

F1 to F3 are fundamentals
F4 to F9 are skills
P1 to P3 are core
P4 to P7 are options (you take any 2 from 4)

You take a tax paper (F6) at the skills level and that one is not so far different from P6.

When it gets to the options papers you are making options based on where you see your career going.

P6 is the advanced tax paper.

Whilst I studed P6 I actually took P5 (advanced performance management) and P7 (advanced audit). The first of those is very relevant to management accountancy, the audit paper is pretty much an extension of the corporate reporting paper but from the angle of seeing where things are going wrong... Great for instilling serious professional scepticism which is just what you need when dealing with SME clients!

When you have passed you always have the option to go back and take additional papers so you can also sit P6 post qualification (something that I intend to do as CPD when I have time).

Note that the acceptance for a practice certificate is based on your three years post qualification signed off relevant experience, not the options papers that you took.

When you take the exams P2 is officially the most difficult paper but a surprisingly high number of people pass it.

P5 seems easier (posssibly as that one spoke my language) but the pass rate for that paper is only around 29% of people pass it at each sitting.

HTH,

Shaun.


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Hi Shaun,

I mean can you become a member of the ACCA without having any tax experience? For instance, a management accountant may never fill in a tax return.

I'd like to study the tax units - offers more avenues.

Sitting extra units, after completion is appealing.

It states on the ACCA page - Early / Standard / Late registration for exams. If for instance you were sitting in June this year, when would the early price close? There is a massive difference in price!

Thanks



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Hi Johnny,

Go grab a coffee before you start reading this as there's a lot here to think about.

there are two seperate discussions there so I'm going to park the fee's element for a little and we'll talk about the route to a practice certificate.

I've explained the exams part but I feel that I need to go into more detail as to how to get to a practice certificate and to do that we need to cover all of the experience requirement.

There are two lots of experience that you need to have signed off pre membership and post membership.

Pre membership

This experience may be acquired whilst you are still taking your exams or after you have taken them so there is no restriction on those not currently employed in this field studying towards ACCA but there is a restriction on membership of the ACCA.

When you have passed your exams you become an affiliate and stay an affiliate (you cannot use the ACCA letters after your name) until you have your relevant experience signed off.

The relevant experience takes the form of at least three years of full time relevant experience. That could be in industry or practice.

I will explain the process as it was when I took it. It will have changed a little now but will be based upon the same competencies.

The student training record is a list of a 68 elements spread accross 9 area's of competency. of which you must achieve at least 12 technical elements including 6 key elements from at least 2 areas and you must achieve all 4 mandatory management elements of competence.

 

It's not just a matter of trying to get the minimum, you need to prove yourself to the ACCA to get to membership. Personally I got 38 technical elements including 14 key elements accross 6 areas of competence. All of mine were signed off from working in management accounting in banking and high finance over a period of 5 years.

Also, it is not simply a matter of getting a signature. You must also detail each element that was signed off and also the person who signs your training record may be interviewed about you.

Once you have passed 14 exams, got your training record signed off and completed a post qualification ethics module you can apply for membership of the ACCA.

 

Post Membership

This is the bit that people find more problematic in that if you want a practice certificate then you must have worked in practice.

You can only start working towards a practice certificate once you have moved up to membership.

Thats not just any practice. The practice concerned must have been approved by the ACCA for practice certificate training purposes.

You need to get three years practical supervised experience signed off.

Your supervisor must be a recognised fully qualified accountant (that generally means ACA or ACCA).

Your training record covers 7 areas, incorporating 26 units, covering 67 elements.

To achieve a practice certificate you need to get all five manadatory elements in the professional conduct area. At least 8 technical elements from at least two of areas 2-5 including at least 6 key technical elements. At least 2 management areas from area 6 including a minimum of one key element.

To get the practice certificate you need to have at least 4560 signed off hours over a minimum of 3 years.

One concession is that if your pre membership experience was for a practice certificate recognised training provider then one year pre membership can count towards post membership practtice supervsion.

In my case as all of my pre membership was in corporate non of it counts towards my Practice certificate training.

 

Tax Question

You seem most concerned about this area in order to gain a practice certificate so I'll go into a little more detail.

You will sit F6 (Tax) you may choose to sit P6 (Advanced Tax). Sitting those will help put you in a role where you will be able to get the Taxation elements of your practice certtificate training record signed off. Its the elements on the training trecord that matter, not passing P6 which just puts you in a position to get to having those elements signed off.

For Taxation there are five elements (four of them are key, indicated here with a (K)).

M1 Compute the tax payable (k)

M2 Provide advice on tax liabilities and payments (k)

M3 Provide advice on current and future tax planning (k)

M4 Provide advice about the tax implications of internally or externally initiated changes

M5 Negotiate with the tax authorities on behalf of clients (k)

 

General

You will note from the above that there are at least five years practical experience to be signed off to get to a practice certificate. At least three of those years mustt be for a practice recognised for practice certificate supervision (thats not all ACCA practices).

Also, remember that for the  practice certificate supervision thats not simply allowing three years to elapse but actually being able to evidence 4560 hours of relevant supervised work.

 

And that in a nutshell is why people pay more for the services of Chartered and Chartered Certified accountants.

 

HTH,

Shaun.



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Shaun

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Thanks for yet another comprehensive answer.

I think essentially I'm trying to gauge if it's possible to be able to call yourself a chartered accountant, without ever working in practice.

I understand the prerequisites to gain a practice licence - It isn't easy!!

If I land a job, where I'm doing management accounting, in due time of course, this can lead to me being able to label myself as a chartered accountant? Subject to completing various PERs.

I understand I wouldn't be able to offer services to the public.

If you work solely in industry, who can sign your experience off? Does this person need to be a recognised accountant?

I've had a skim through the 2016 rulebook, although it is almost 600 pages long lol.

I definitely see why chartered accountants charge more - then again, I stick them in the same leagues as lawyers, for knowledge and prestige.

Thanks



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Hi Johnny,

it's Chartered Certified Accountant rather than Chartered.

Chartered Accountant is ACA (ICAEW, ICAS, CAI).

We must be better as we have more words, lol.

Your answer above is mixing up pre and post qualification sign off.

You mention the PER which is pre qualification to get to membership. That can be achieved purely in industry. The person signing off your experience must be in a position of authority and you will need to state their qualifications although there is more flexibility here than there is for gaining a practice certificate. i.e. If you are working in banking and your experience in management accounting is signed off by a qualified banker rather than an accountant that is likely to be acceptable.

To get to a practice certificate though, the person needs to be a qualified accountant recognised for practice certificate supervision.

There are a few industry and consultancy employers (i.e. KPMG, PWC, E&Y, Deloitte, accounancy departments of banks and insurance companies, etc.) where people work in industry but experience can count towards a practice certificate although there may be some issues getting certain important elements of experience signed off and it may prove necessary to change employers to get to a practice certificate.

I must emphasise that the business must be recognised for practice certificate supervision. It is not enough to merely be working for a suitably qualified accountant.

It is free for practices to apply to become practice certificate training providers and they get a nice little logo to add to their docements if they are accepted. To be accepted they must show that they already have a number of staff that they are actively training towards ACCA.

I can see your confusion as it takes some coming around to the fact that you effectively have to get two seperate lots of experience. One for membership and a second for a practice certificate.

You can gain membership purely on the management accounting side of the fence

You will not gain a porctice certificate by that route except in a very small number of limited exceptions generally around consultancy with one of the big firms.



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Ah yes, Chartered certified :)

ACCA is a minefield whichever way you approach the beast lol.

Knowing now ACCA membership can be gained by purely working in industry is making me sway from CIMA.

Also, IF I get a job in industry, complete ACCA slowly - it does leave the option of having a practice one day, offering various services.

An industry job could open a practice door (Need luck)

Obviously I'd have to resign ACCA if I didn't have a practice licence.

I know it all sounds backwards -

BUT -

ACCA contains tax, equal to ATT (opinion)

Contains more than enough management accounting syllabus.

Obviously covers financial accounting.

God knows!! I'll get a job first!!




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Yep, complete minefield and a lot don't make it through.

I would say that F6 level knowldge is the equivalent of ATT. P6 level knowledge is more advanced but not up to CIOT.

An awful lot of the ACCA syllabus is management accounting covering much of the same material as CIMA. Working in industry myself there was no apparent differences in the knowledge bases between the ACCA and CIMA people... And strange as it may seem I always found that there were actually more ACCA management accountants than CIMA one's but that may be because my work was all in financial services.

I did once have an interview with a mobile phone company and they had real difficulty understanding why an ACCA bod was applying for a management accounting role (all of their guys were CIMA). I've also heard accountants in practice who almost do not consider CIMA people to be accountants. No matter which route you choose you will face issues over those of other bodies not understanding how suitable you are for the advertised role.

All of them should spend time on here chatting with people of all professional bodies and then they would get a better understanding.

On the financial accounting side I would add to that ACCA incorporates Audit which really enforces the financial accounting knowledge base regardless as to whether one intends to work within audit.

Really if your intent is only SME fiancial accounting your options should be advanced tax and advanced audit forgetting the word audit in there and reading that more as advanced corporate reporting.

I would not start applying for jobs as a PQ until you have at least the first nine papers (skills level) under your belt.


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Well the initial aim is any financial job - even if it's right at the bottom. A foot in the door is better than nothing. Yeah some members of X will always look down onto Y, elitism maybe. It's tough because you obviously want to start on the correct path. ACCA is of course the best choice, with CIMA a very close second, due to it being more liberal and flexible. Do you attend any ACCA branch meetings? Just wondering how they are, how they can help. Thanks

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Its not always right to accept anything and it's very possible to get stuck in a role that you hate as that's what you are seen as having experience in.

Some jobs on your CV will prevent you from getting access to others in the same way that some qualifications on the CV will prevent you from getting considered for interview.

I've not yet attended any local meetings (I think that my closest one is Brum) but I am a member of a closed access linkedin groups which is restricted to only ACCA full members (you have to apply using your ACCA id and wait for it to be confirmed before you can even read the group).

They seem like a generally good mixed bunch of people with widely varied opinions that on occassion end up with some quite heated exchanges that never become unprofessional.

Considering the thousands of people on there I imagine that if you were a regular contributor looking for work freindships developed on there may lead to opportunities. It certainly doesn't seem like the sort of place where you would go asking people for work but if you are known to be available and make the right impressions it could lead to something.

You also learn quite a lot about the profession in different countries... Its a lot more closed shop and cross border protective that perhaps its being portrayed.

I would say that CIMA were closer to ACCA's position before they upped and left the CCAB party. Certainly to my mindset it always used to be a case that you thought of them together in the same sentence where now I would say that the battlefield in the consulting firms is more between ACCA and ACA.

You really need to start getting PQ magazine delivered every month (its free for accountancy students) as that keeps you informed as to whats happening in the industry (such as the ACCA move to four sittings a year and computerised exams on demand for some papers).

Also sign up to the daily news feeds from accountingweb, Accountancy Age and Finance Director. All of those have lots of interesting current topics that it always helps to know something about.







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Therein lays the issue - take anything - become typecast.

The initial first foray into an employed role is paved in holes, man-holes lol.

In fairness we could spend a lifetime searching for a shot at the title.

Yes I'll subscribe to your recommendations.

It's interesting you mention the CBE, I 'think' at the moment, this is being rolled out in London to begin - could be totally wrong.

Hope future employers wouldn't look down on the fact that I'd have potentially sat a CBE, as an oppose to a written paper - there are always disadvantages.

Thanks









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abacus12345 wrote:

Therein lays the issue - take anything - become typecast.

The initial first foray into an employed role is paved in holes, man-holes lol.

In fairness we could spend a lifetime searching for a shot at the title.     Its all about positioning, timing and lorra lorra luck

Yes I'll subscribe to your recommendations.  

It's interesting you mention the CBE, I 'think' at the moment, this is being rolled out in London to begin - could be totally wrong.  I thought Kaplan were covering these nationwide, or at least in the bigger centres?

Hope future employers wouldn't look down on the fact that I'd have potentially sat a CBE, as an oppose to a written paper - there are always disadvantages.  I dont think this one is likely to be looked at in the same terms as 'did you go to a red brick Uni or another (old school) Uni' type scenario. How would they know - would that be just from the year that you achieved a pass?

Thanks








 Go for it Johnny!!!!!!!! If you dont get there, you can say you tried, rather than looking back and wishing you had. But try hard enough and you will - it wont be easy, nothing worth having ever is!



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My thoughts exactly - aim for the moon - land in the stars he he

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I thought that it was leap for the moon end up in a duck pond? lol.

On the CBE front currently I believe that its fundamentals and a couple of the skills level with the aim of all of the skills level being available by CBE at some point soon.

Thing is that all that the fundamental and skills levels do is put you in a position to take the P level papers and I do not believe that there are plans afoot to change them away from paper based exams.

As such I don't see that this will cause any issue over how you took your exams as the five that m,atter will be the same as they ever were (well, since 2007 anyway when there was a major change in the qualification).

Worth noting that ACCA have also changed their time limits. It used to be from signing up to reaching affiliate status you had ten years or you had to start again from scratch.

Now the time limit has been removed for the fundamental / skills level (F1 through F9) but as soon as you book P1 a seven year clock starts.

Thats actually not that dissimilar to the old timescales in that people would get through the first 9 in 2-3 years but then be hit with the big jump from BSc to MSc level study.

P1 is a relatively gentle paper to ease the transition but make no mistake that P2 (the beast... Look it up, just put "ACCA the beast" into a google search) is the most difficult of any accounting paper of any professional body yet still has higher pass rates than P4, P5, P6 or P7 as those one's are the gate keepers between being a student and being a member so it seems that no mercy is shown by the markers who really have to be convinced that you know your stuff before letting you in.

At least its better than the pre 2007 syllabus where the final three paper had to be sat in the same sitting and if you failed any one of them it was taken that you had failed all three (so you had to take them all again) and if you failed three times you were out.

The exams now (to my mind) are more difficult individually but at least they dropped the three paper rules.

Anyway, I digress. No, I don't think that any employer will care about people taking CBE's in F1 through F9 provided that they take written papers in P1 through P7.

One thing that you may not have considered is that if you go down the ACCA route you have exemptions from F1 through F4, you take F5 through F9, you get a certificate from the ACCA to say that you have passed that level and also have the option of taking a BSc at that level.

You will have learnt a lot more about financial accounting and Tax than if you had taken the CIMA route, but, at P1 stage if the step up in the level of ACCA study is too much you could apply to CIMA for paper for paper exemptions and swap to that route instead.

I know, start AAT, switch to ACCA, complete CIMA. Just a thought but it would be remiss of me not to mention that as an option.

You also get the benefit of ACCA skills level study which is the very best you can get and will give you more solid well rounded foundations no matter what route you decide to eventually take.

As an addendum, I had exemptions from F1 through F3 but I still sat the exams. I joined with a group of others who all took the exemptions and had all dropped out of the qualification by F5. I just thought that I should mention that as the fundamentals papers help to get you into the mindset of the ACCA examiners. If you do take the exemptions at least do some old papers yourself before moving on as initial papers ar the foundations of the qualification and the skip them is to attempt to build a house without foundations.

I certainly think that its unwise to skip the law paper (F4) even if you have AAT as you will use knowledge picked up there in almost every other ACCA paper. F1 through F3 youi should have covered sufficiently with AAT.

Good luck if you decide to take this path. Its worth it even if you only do thee first nine... Although once you have settling for anything else just feels wrong. Certainly in my case when I expected a truly great score at P7 but failed it (the only time I asked for a review of my exam script by the ACCA) in my anger I dallied with IFA but just could not bring myself to give up on a qualification that I had sweated blood to achieve.

When you have completed the nine and have acquired that distant gaze shared only with vietnam veterans you will see what I mean!

Shaun.

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Hi Shaun, I was under the impression the only exemptions AAT were eligible for were F1/2/3. I've actually got a F4 text, albeit out of date now, but much is the same. IMO it's very interesting. If you pass the F papers, should you be able to complete the P papers? How massively is the step up from F to P? I prefer the look of Kaplan again over BPP, probably just personal preference and no real merit in that. Thanks

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Hi Johnny,

as I say its the equivalent of moving from BSc to MSc level study.

in very simplistic terms consider it moving from the question "how?" to the question "why?".

The F papers give you the skills necessary to move up a gear to learn at the P level but you could not sit the P level papers with only F level knowledge.

The above said, I think that you would be set up to run a competent SME level practice with F (skills) level knowledge. Shame that you would have to resign your student membership to do that (unless you stop at trial balance).

I've said it on site before that Kaplan texts suit my learning style in that its teach, example, try it yourself, do it again with more complexity.


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Yes I see what you mean - as an oppose to calculating the answer, explain why it is the answer - together with ways of achieving a different answer. It's a tricky one - it has its restrictions, yet it offers a bona fide way of being an actual professional. It's one of those things whereby you can use it as leverage against your children in their future ventures - I've completed this, so you must do better!! There are many pros to studying ACCA. Thanks for your input - I'm sure many others have learnt a thing or two reading through this thread!!

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Thats a good point on the calculate the answer.

At the higher level you do need to calculate situations more complex than at the F level papers but the calculations themselves carry no points. What matters is using that information to write a report generally to a senior partner at the firm or a manager of the business analysing performance, risks, opportunities, etc.

The part that I find hardest there in an exam script is that you need to include your calculations as appendices in the exam script. You don't get any scrap paper to work with just the exam booklet and answer booklet so you do your calculations in the exam book, you write your report in your answer script, you then write up your calculations as appendices in the script booklet which youwill have referenced from the text of your answer.

Now consider that one question will be at least three pages long. You have two of that sort of question and two shorter one page questions.

Any one question done fully could take up the full three hours of the exam yet you have to answer four questions in that time.

If you have to think about what you are doing you have failed. There just isn't the time.

And that I think is the real key to ACCA in that if you go into a practice and talk to an ACCA accountant generally they will answer your question without hesitation and without refering to anything. Thats because the one's that have passed have had to get through some incredibly time pressured exams and to do that an awful lot gets burnt into memory.

People see results such as only 29% of people getting through paper P5 at a sitting and assume that they were not good enough to pass. The truth is that the bulk of the people sitting that exam would have known everything in that syllabus. Their enemy is not knowledge, it's time. But its that time pressure that makes accountants (or breaks them... I've seen someone have a breakdown in the exam hall).

Lol on the line about expecting children to do better.

I've brought my boy up on my own whilst studying ACCA. He's seen everything that I've gone through (and the number of books I have) and far from looking at me as a target to beat I feel that I serve more as a warning that this isn't a path to be chosen lightly.

That said, I did learn that in a debate with his teacher over a budget that he had created as part of his homework he actually stated in a drop the mic moment that he had already had it reviewed by an accountant! Lol.

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Lol. I imagine the teacher was impressed with you. So skills papers are what is written on the tin, with the professional level looking for a strategic outlook. Factoring in let's say, three fails - can this be achieved within 3 - 4 years? With reasonable study? By which I mean 20 hours per week? 2 hours each day, weekends as rest. I've seen it said that ACCA can be completed in under 3 years, I assume that's an exception, rather than rule. There is no rush of course, yet it's good to have an idea. Thanks

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Hi Johnny,

its all changing and I have no exposure to CBE's or the four sittings a year.

In hindsight personally I would have done the exams differently as I just took them all sequentially rather than working out what matched up with what.

I will say that you need 20 hours a week for 13 weeks per paper.

You also need to do the following matched up / sat alone as they share much of the same knowledge base / mindset. (wish someone had told me this before I started!).

F4
F5 and F9
F6
F7 and F8
P1
P2 and P7
P3 and (P5 or P4)
P6

I would use the new sittings only for resits and make your plans based on 6 monthly sittings.

As you can see above I match up the Corporate reporting and audit and also Business analysis and performance management.

P1 and F4 can also be considered quite closely matched but I don't think that you would be able to sit those together even if you leave F4 until last (I think that the rule is that you must have sat all of the F papers before you move up to the P's.

The rules may have changed around being able to sit options (P4 to P7) at the same time as core (P1 to P3) but thats some way off before you need to be concerned by that.
So, 8 planned sittings equates to four years.


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Shaun

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Paper order;

It was a query I had - I was thinking along the lines of mixing a 'wordy' text, with a 'numbers' text so to speak.

Yours makes perfect sense mind.

I've never sat two papers of an exam in one day, is it a case of;

F5 in the morning,
Short sharp break,
F9 late afternoon?

I think anymore than two hours per day trying to revise is counter productive, just personal opinion mind.

F4 would be the first major challenge, stepping up to the plate so to speak. First foray...

In fairness, the Kaplan text of F4 is easy to digest, then again all things legal do interest me, so that of course helps.


Actually understanding the logistics of the qualification should come with it's own certificate!

Thanks





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Hi Johnny,

no, you only get to sit one exam per day.

In the UK the exams all start at 10:00 and finish at 13:15.

All over the world they all start at the same moment so there is no risk of someone in one country telling someone in another what to expect.

Thinking about it, worldwide thats potentially 374,000 student all opening their exam scripts at exactly the same moment... It won't be of course as people won't have exams every day and not every student sits at every sitting but certainly when you see the numbers all going into just at one exam hall and think how many exams halls ACCA have...

Every hall is quite like this (This one is an ACCA sitting at ExCel but it looks very similar settup to Hockley / the NEC / The Villa sports hall all of which I have sat exams at).



I've just checked and they have changed the timetable to bring it down to five days rather than the old eight days of exams.

the new schedule is

acca exams Jun 16.jpg

So, taking Monday as an example F2, F8 and P7 would all start at the same time so you could not take more than one of those in an exam sitting.

Looking at the above all of the combinations that I suggest will still be ok.

With ACCA you will find all of the exams wordy but where F7 has a lot of calculations F8 is more wordy so that would fit with your desired mix (same with P2 and P7).

The only truly non calculator papers are F4 and P1 (and F1 but you have exemption from that one).

I used to sit mine at Hockley circus in Brum. Pretty sure that would be the closest to you as well. I would arrive there at 05:45 in the morning to get in some pre exam index card revision (and ensure that I got a parking space). 4 hours before needing to go into the hall seems a long time but trust me it goes way, way too fast.



-- Edited by Shamus on Sunday 1st of May 2016 10:41:23 PM

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WOW! Hell of a lot of students! First thing that came to mind - look at all the competition for future work, not factoring the already qualified! LOL

I like your commitment to the exams -

Yes Birmingham would be my nearest port of call.

With the introduction of future CBEs for the F papers, Kaplan would more likely than not be the destination of choice.

If not, the venues you mentioned are cool.

Looks like you could fit a Airbus A380 in there.

You studied the qualification off your own back, without a training provider, aside from your own success and dedication, what aided you the most? Past papers?

Thanks



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I could say things like index cards, past papers, open tuition, etc. but if you study yourself what you really need is to be organised and to set yourself goals. So, I would probably say that the thing that helped me the most was Excel.

I set up a countdown to the exam

I listed every chapter in each book that I was to read, every past exam question from a revision text that I was to attempt, every past paper that I was to sit.

It might take me a full day of sitting there organising myself before I started studying but when I did start I knew exactly what I needed to have compeleted by when so one lost day saved me a lot of time in the long run.

Try for one chapter per day, then four questions per day, then one exam per day.

Always factor in one day per week of doing no study at all otherwise you will burn out. I used to have a Friday evening PC gaming night with a couple of my sons.

In the two to three weeks before the actual exam do an old paper per day under timed exam conditions. Doing an exam timed is a totally different ball game to simply doing old questions on a more casual basis or even doing single questions underr timed conditions.

Remember that on the day you will be looking for one tick from the marker for every 1.8 minutes of writing that you do. So, if you have a 20 mark question you know that you have 36 minutes to get 20 ticks.

The first question that you do will be worth between 30 and 50 marks. By the end of it you will be shell shocked but you need to maintain your pace through another three questions. Only lots, and lots and lots of timed practice of entire exams can prepare you for that.

I think at the moment the CBE's are only F1 through F4 but thats likely to change over the next couple of years.




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Hi Shaun. Index cards, we have spoke about these before - definitely needed for ACCA. The study per chapter method I've used before, It is effective. I like the Excel model, to be fair unless we are organised we have no hope. Behind the login of AAT there are tools such as, green light tests, computer marked assessments and such like, is there anything behind the ACCA login which is similar? I download a free ACCA Exam expert app yesterday - not sure if you've seen it - it's very good.

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Hi johnny
You can buy practice tests as singles or in batches of three direct from the ACCA and they will mark them.

Ive seen that app you mention, but havent delved!

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Thanks Joanne, that's good to know. Yes the app is good. You should check it out. I planned on having a quick 5 minute gander, was still there 2 hours later listening to the recordings lol.

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I'm not too happy with the way that ACCA went with the materials available on their site. It used to be that the exams were available as they were sat a few days after the exam was sat. They also included the stock answers to every exam. It was brilliant and it was free then a few months ago (you missed this by the skin of your teeth) they removed them all.

The new tests for F1 through F4 are very reasonably priced but they are no replacement for the lost papers. Also, with the exception of F4 haven't you got exemption from the one's that you can get marked tests for? (here : www.accaglobal.com/uk/en/student/exam-entry-and-administration/preparing-for-exams/practice-tests.html)

The only downside with past papers being available for free and not maintained is that tax regulation and financial reporting standards move on so old papers on the financvial accounting side of the fence were less useful than old papers on the management accounting side as management accounting never really changes.

BPP and Kaplan revision texts take the form of old exam questions taken directly from ACCA actual exam sittings but updated in line with changes in regulations and standards.

Thed cynic in me would suggest that BPP and Kaplan were not too happy about paying fee's to ACCA to be approved publishers and versions of the materals that they were attempting to sell were available from the ACCA for free.

There is no reason that you should not pay pennies for the following old Bpp and Kaplan revision texts (try to always buy both as often they answer the same questions in different ways) although certain elements do tend to occassionally migrate between syllabuses of different papers.

F4, F5, F9, P1, P3, P4, P5

With tax (F6 and P6) you always need the current version

With financial reporting standards based papers (F7, F8, P2, P7) you should try to buy the latest versions but some sittings nothing has changed so provided that you have kept your eye on syllabus changes and FRC updates there is some flexibility there.

Each revision text tends to use different updated ACCA questions rather than simply bringing the same questions up to date each year so its worth getting a few versions of the same books.

HTH,

Shaun.

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Thanks for the link. Very reasonable when all things are considered. I feel confident in taking the first three F papers exemptions from ACCA, via way of AAT. I was humming and arrrrring whether to take the first five exemptions from CIMA, as there are notable differences imo, between AAT and CIMA certificate. I don't think I'd take the F4 exemption, even if eligible as it contains too much of what I don't know. AAT covered ethics etc, yet it is in no way close to the knowledge needed to pass, or progress through, and, past F4. I think your thinking on the penny books - agreed, buy tax new. Recent versions of F7 - As going full hammer tuition, would cost thousands! Having said that, I've not ruled out tuition when on professional papers - should I get there of course!

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I could be wrong but it sounds as though you have made a decision as to which way to go Johnny (I know that you've been torn for weeks and its good that you took your time to reach a decision that you are comfortable with).

You're right on F4. AAT may have covered things such as corporate structures but I don't think that it will have covered things like law of contract to the level expected of a professional accountant.

I really loved studying the case law around offer, acceptance and consideration... And there are your first three decks of index cards. Situation on one side, case name and year on the other.

Remember to do them both ways. i.e. read the cases and remember the details, read the details and remember the cases (and dates).

Don't panic but you also need to memorise a bit of Latin for the law paper. It's not much just some key legal phrases.

It also covers key legislation affecting business, corporate responsibilities, legal structure behind PLC's, etc.

Remember to watch the free opentuition lectures. Some tutors are better than others. If you are lucky enough to get subjects covered by Mike Little the guys brilliant and really brings subjects to life with personal anecdotes as he's an ex practice accountant now doing the lecture circuit of the Eastern European branches of the big 4 accounting firms (I know that he does P2 and P7. I think that the F level papers may be below his level). His lectures on opentuition are actually recorded live as he teaches PWC / KPMG / E&Y students.

BPP used to do a set of success CD's for each paper. F4 was the only paper where I found that any use as at the time I was driving an hour each way to and from work each day so putting that CD on every morning you find that even when you don't think that you are listening to it the information is going in and eventually it sticks to the point that you can almost regurgitate the CD word perfectly.

This is the CD : www.amazon.co.uk/ACCA-Paper-Corporate-Business-Success/dp/0751728381/ref=sr_1_18

But unfortunately not currently available on Amazon even from resellers.

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Hi. Yes it's been a mare deciding which way to go, which branch to choose, and which body to go with. The main goal now, is to find a finance role. I can not give up my small SE enterprise (lol) without a full time finance job. I know I'm looking at basic roles - yet I digress. Some will wonder why switch from SE to employed - confidence is one reason, small SE businesses are, dare I say simple - my goal is to either work my way up in industry, or eventually one day return, with a ACCA practice licence. The latter of course is the harder goal. I enjoy both side of accountancy, tax together with costings, budgets, ABC etc etc. Hopefully as my knowledge improves, I can continue to add fact, together with opinion lol. It's a tough call, at almost 32, I feel I'm on the cusp of a few things!!! I know I'm not old, I know too, I'm no pup. Watch this space...who knows, I could end up with egg on my face, yet I won't know unless I try : )

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abacus12345 wrote:

I know I'm not old


no Soooooooo young!!!!!!!!   

 

When is your interview?  Is it tomorrow?  Good luck whenever and let us know!

 



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He he. Thanks. Yes it is tomorrow. I shall report back :) If tomorrow is no success, I shall try again, and again - and probably again! Then hopefully I can sell my clients on to a local, and in turn register with the ACCA. A job which would fund my ACCA would be amazing, although I'm not for one minute expecting that - more like trying to grab a textbook ebay bargain at the last minute of an auction! Fun times - remain optimistic!

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abacus12345 wrote:

 A job which would fund my ACCA would be amazing


I was thinking about that.  Certainly if you are looking at the lower wage range (which you indicated you might need to do) then I was thinking you will be working full time for £x and have less time to study. So then why not just do limited company clients up to TB, earn more, up to 3 or 4 x £x, but work less hours and have more time to study  - you would effectively be on the same wage.  Just a thought.

Anyway - best of luck for tomoz. Its my baby brother's birthday tomorrow so its a lucky day! 



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He he. Happy Birthday to him. Yes I hope it's a lucky day! Yes I have thought about all different types of ways of this all coming together and working. Yes I've no illusions of the salary I'll be looking at. I'm hoping after all F papers, and X long in a finance role, I shall then have the power to apply for something more akin to PQ. It's all of course a pipe dream at the moment, as you can imagine - yet one needs a plan

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Hello,

Just a few thoughts.  These may be a little random so apologies in advance.  As a reminder, I am CIMA part qualified.

I have never worked in banking (although I did have an interview with Hill Samuel many, many moons ago), so I will take Shaun's word (which I would never doubt) on the prevalence of ACCA qualifieds in banking.

I started off doing basic costing and ledger work in manufacturing and service businesses of various sizes, before managing to get a junior management accounting role in the NHS.  Up to this point in my career (including the NHS), I am pretty sure that the vast majority of qualifieds that I worked with were CIMA qualified.  ACCA qualifieds were relatively few in number and Chartereds were rare.

I currently work for a large, regional social housing provider.  In this business the proportion of ACCA, ACA and CIMA is more evenly spread, although I think there is still a greater proportion of CIMA (I have not actually surveyed the staff but this is my impression).

In my experience, the CIMA qualification will not limit opportunities in industry.  A CIMA qualified is only likely to get a job in practice doing management accounting, such roles do come up from time to time.

Something you will learn, (even as an AAT, part qualified or qualified accountant), is that regardless of which professional body you belong to, your marketability will be defined by your recent experience.  In my case, there is virtually no chance of getting a job in practice, and even though I do have manufacturing experience, this was some time ago so I have very weak prospects of working in manufacturing.

On the other hand, the NHS, social housing, the charity sector and service sector are still good prospects for me.

Gaining your experience for qualification.  I won't try to explain this, here is a link to CIMA Practical Experience Requirements.

Regarding starting your own practice once qualified.  I don't know what the CIMA process is exactly, but my impression is that they will allow you to practice in specialisms in which you are experienced, and I think they will allow you to practice in specialisms in which you are not experienced as long as they are satisfied that your plan for resolving these knowledge gaps is adequate.  It is also worth knowing that if you have a practicing certificate with another body, including the AAT and the IFA, then you do not need to apply for a practicing certificate with CIMA.  I don't know whether you are then allowed to hold yourself out as a Chartered Management Accountant.

Hope that helps.

David.



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Evening David,

as mentioned buried in one of my replies above somewhere, my experience from work in the banking sector was not repeated when I looked at a role with a telecoms company. In that instance everyone there was CIMA and could not quite get their heads around ACCA people being management accountants.

I think that its one of those things that varies from company to company but, here are the facts (figures are approximate taken from 2015 trends in accountancy, the balance for each is made up of things such as public sector work) :

23% of ACCA members work in practice and 59% work in industry and Commerce.
25% of ICAEW members work in practice and 50% work in industry and commerce
1% of CIMA members work in practice and 76% work in industry and commerce

Figures for UK membership are :

ACCA 83,839
CIMA 77,551
ICAEW 122,167

The above figures do not include students.

One interesting anomally that I saw with the figures is that most (pretty much all) ICAEW students work in practice but there are relatively few students compared to members. Therefore I suspect that the bulk of the membership actually comes from ACCA and CIMA converts.

Looking at the conversion criteria CIMA gets 4 possible exemptions from ICAEW as follows :

Accounting

Financial Reporting and Taxation (F1)

Business and Finance

Organisational Management (E1)
Financial Reporting and Taxation (F1)
Project and Relationship Management (E2)
Advanced Financial Reporting (F2)

Business Strategy

Project and Relationship Management (E2)
Strategic Management (E3)
Strategic Case Study

Management Information

Management Accounting (P1)



ACCA members enjoy 12 examptions to get to ICAEW membership.

Accounting

ACCA Membership

Assurance

ACCA Membership

Audit and Assurance

ACCA Membership and P7 Advanced Audit and Assurance

Business and Finance

ACCA Membership

Business Planning: Taxation

ACCA Membership and P6 Advanced Taxation

Business Strategy

ACCA Membership

Financial Accounting and Reporting

ACCA Membership

Financial Management

ACCA Membership

Law

ACCA Membership

Management Information

ACCA Membership

Principles of Taxation

ACCA Membership

Tax Compliance

ACCA Membership and P6 Advanced Taxation



As there are relatively few ICAEW students but a lot of members I would suspect that the bulk of converts are from ACCA enjoying the higher volume of exemptions so shorter transition time as an ICAEW student.

Its also interesting that the ICAEW judges no difference in the management accounting exemptions between ACCA and CIMA.


I'm genuinely not looking to be contentious and the above are simply presented as facts to show that whilst most CIMA people do as you state work in industry and commerce, the bulk of people working in industry and commerce are not CIMA.

I then went on to debate whether many of those categorised as ICAEW were actually trained as ACCA which was nothing really to do with the debate but merely a passing discrepancy in the student to member figures that I noticed.

All figures are as stated approximate as they come from graphs rather than tables.

For information the document referenced is the FRC's key trends in accountancy 2015 which can be found here : www.frc.org.uk/Our-Work/Publications/Professional-Oversight/Key-Facts-and-Trends-in-the-Accountancy-Profes-(1).pdf

kindest regards,

Shaun.

 

p.s. edited as lost formatting and corrupted the link on posting



-- Edited by Shamus on Monday 2nd of May 2016 11:13:24 PM



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Ok, so back from the interview......hmm.. so the MD thought I was applying for the financial controller role, nope not me lol. Mix up in HR somehow..on the bright side the company is expanding, therefore, will be recruiting finance assistants pretty soon. Details kept on record. Slightly rejected...will continue. At least HR liked my CV.

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abacus12345 wrote:

Ok, so back from the interview......hmm.. so the MD thought I was applying for the financial controller role, nope not me lol. Shouldve said yes biggrin!   Mix up in HR somehow.. Or said you should be the Head of HR and will sort them out! winkon the bright side the company is expanding, therefore, will be recruiting finance assistants pretty soon. Details kept on record. Slightly rejected...will continue. At least HR liked my CV.


 Bummer!!!no   Better luck next time



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that sounds like a hell of a mix up on their part.

The hiring manager will have also seen your CV before the interview and it sounds as though nothing jumped out at them to say that HR had got things completely wrong.

Whatever you are writing in your CV you seem to have hit the magic get to interview formulae so whatever that magic combination of words is don't mess it up... Just get the skills you need for the jobs that its getting you interviews for!

I do really sympathise as I know how it feels when you get to an interview for one job and then they start interviewing you for something completely different.

Keep yer pecker up matey and try again.


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Hello,

First; commiserations to the OP.  On the bright side you must have presented yourself well in your CV to be invited to interview for the FC role?

Next, Shaun:

If I have understood the statistics you have provided correctly and done my sums properly then the actual numbers of the respective bodies working in industry and commerce are as follows:

ACCA 49,465

CIMA 58938

ICAEW 61083

The ACCA numbers make sense to me based on my experience, but the ICAEW numbers just don't.  I would have guessed at around 20,000 for ICAEW at the most.  The ICAEW numbers definitely do not reflect my experience!

David.

 

 

 

 
 
 


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Hi David,

Yep, so of 169,487 accountants working in industry, 110,549 of them are not CIMA (figures are actually approximate rather than exact numbers).

Working in banking there were chartered accountants that I had meetings with but they did not work in my area. No idea how many worked with the bank but it seems that all of them that I met were in senior roles.

Working with some of the big four firms a lot of their people were ACCA but I read in PQ a couple of years back that they had also started pushing people down the Chartered (ICAEW)  route.

There will also be ACCA people moving over to ICAEW (there are only 3 exams to take to move over for ACCA people) which will adjust the ICAEW numbers towards industry somewhat as if you look at the student figures for ICAEW, ICAS and CAI there is virtually no exposure to industry.

If you think that the ICAEW guys in industry are predominantly ACCA trained it probably starts to make more sense but then you are looking at more ACCA management accountants than CIMA ones which would go along with my experience... BUT... I totally agree with you that there are many firms out there who see CIMA as management accountants and ACCA as financial one's as I discovered myself at that telecoms company interview.

I also think that there's the issue that ACCA people will tend to hire ACCA people, CIMA people will tend to hire CIMA people which would be why each of us see's businesses filled with people holding predominantly (but not necessarily exclusively) the same qualification.



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Thanks all. Onwards and upwards - at least my CV is reasonable - will continue the climb up the mountain.

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So an update - second interview attended yesterday, all went well. I have been asked to return next Friday to perform a test of sorts. Requirements are Sage / bank Rec's / excel. Role is accounts assistant for a small company - S/L P/L etc -

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That's great news Johnny, hope you get it.

 



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Well done Johnny, we're all routing for you.

If they are going to test you on Excel expect Pivot tables, Conditional formatting, VLookups and Hlookups. Anything that you are unsure of let me know and I'll send you some links to Youtube videos that you can work along to.

A favorite, quite simple starting question that often throws people is how do you find todays date (answer =today()).








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Thank you. From what I could make out, much is inputting invoices - bank Rec's on excel / bank Rec's on sage etc. Will brush up on excel though. The plan (forward thinking of course :) ) spend 12 months there, to then move onto something juicer - progression. Company seems stagnant, but offers the golden experience element.

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Hi Johnny
Well done so far and good luck for the test. You mentioned doing some work on Sage on another thread, Im guessing upskilling for the test. Did you just download the freebie version of sage instant? (or whatever its called these days as that seems to have changed recently too!)

Just so you know you shouldnt need to do any kind of Bank rec in excel. Sage does it all for you and will save the reports, which you can get out of the system if required. You can also then get a report showing a list of unpresented cheques etc. Go to Bank ---> Reports, rather than just reports from the main screen. This can be dumped to PDF and/or excel. Job done.

HTH



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Thoughts are my own/not to be regarded as official advice,which should be sought from a suitably qualified Accountant.

You should check out answers with reference to the legal position

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