I've just recently reviewed and overhauled the software that I use and it got me to thinking whether the solutions I have now are the best ones for my needs.
I currently have:
Xero, Sage and VT for accounts (that's in order of preference!)
BrightPay for payroll (also MYPAYE if I choose to use it but don't think I'm going to as I'm not keen on the UI)
Outlook for email
Hours Keeper app on my phone for time tracking (I work out at clients offices often)
Wunderlist for task management
GoDaddy for web hosting and email
MS Office for general letter writing, spreadsheets etc
Taxfiler for filing of tax returns
I've trialled Logical Office and Capsule CRM but didn't find they met my needs.
It's the task management and CRM part that I've struggled with the most and I do feel that if I had HUGE amounts of time (or money to pay someone) to set up Logical Office, that it would have been fabulous, but I couldn't justify the pricy subscription and the difficulty of setup. Capsule is very good but tasks are linked to contacts and sometimmes I want to be reminded to do something that either is across many contacts, or isn't applicable to any in particular.
I'd just be interested to know what others use as their day-to-day tools to get the job done (not focusing on accounts software as we all have our own preferences for that as has been proven many times before in other threads)
I use VT Transaction + for accounts, and also looking at Adminsoft for one client, as they have 2 cafe's and want separate figures for each.
Moneysoft for payroll (should also be trialling Brightpay but haven't yet)
Sliq Invoicing Plus
Just starting using Zimbra for email, was using Opera but I have several email addresses and didn't want to break it (managed that when I used Thunderbird (just 2 or 3 on there now but it's very sluggish)
MS Office 2010
Legernet for webhosting (belongs to me recently set up but not developed yet)
No tax return software but may need to sdo so in the future, SA's filed through my agent online account.
I do need a CRM, someone on here suggested Intellect, which I installed as a trial and didn't use. That need's sorting.
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John
Any advice given is for general guidance and professional advice should be sought applicable to your circumstances.
Currently use Taxcalc for accounts and tax return but just tonight signed contract to move to IRIS which over half accounting firms in the UK use (used IRIS most of my time when worked in practice for other firms). Benefits of moving is everything is run off the one database so can do accounts, tax returns, timesheets, practice management, automail letters. Also has IRIS openspace where can publish accounts and tax returns to be electronically signed via client portal as well as any other documents (going to send payroll details this way) as well as client can upload documents securely to me.
Use Xero and SAGE for bookkeeping but will be looking at Kashflow which IRIS now owns as another option as Kashflow easily links with IRIS and it is a bit cheaper than Xero.
Use Xero to do my own accounts.
Use moneysoft for payroll though just do director only payrolls inhouse. Payrolls with non director employees outsource to wageslip.com
Hellosign to electronically sign accounts, tax returns and engagement letters. Actually like this as it is easy to use and looks good and clients like it but not as secure as IRIS openspace so will look at switching documents over to there.
Use 365 for all microsoft products.
Website is hosted by guy that designed it but will be looking to change it over to someone more local to maintain website going forward.
I took out a 6 month subscription of Logical Office a few months ago but found it difficult to use and ditched it after a few weeks.
Will be looking into documents management systems Virtual Office and Docusoft as well as Hosted Desktop options when go to Accountex in London in a couple of weeks time.
Will also look at joining up with ICPA which has a lot of good deals if their PII cover is recognised by ICAS.
Main reason for moving to IRIS is that it is fully integrated and has powerful PM functionality. Will mean dont need to use spreadsheets any more for keeping track of time, keeping track of stage of jobs, keeping track of what tasks to be done each month, keeping track of what payrolls still to be submitted etc. Expecting that will save me and my colleague about 20+ hours per month.
We are as cloud based as possible and I find that is very effective (when the internet is working)
Kashflow, including Receiptbank integration for my bookkeeping but we have clients on Xero, Freeagent, Quickfile, Sage One etc. as well as few that are still on Sage Instant and Quickbooks.
Google Apps for email, calendar and intranet
Microsoft office is my main downloadable package; however, I am doing more and more with Google Docs. I am starting to look at Office 365 too.
Dropbox for sharing files around the office - we don't use an in house server.
Gbooks for Statutory accounts and tax return preparation.
I outsource all my payroll to a sister company and they are using 12pay.
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Phil Hendy, The Accountancy Mentor
Are you thinking of setting up your own practice or have you set up and need some help?
If so a mentor may be the way forward - feel free to get in touch and see how I can assist you.
I'm the complete opposit to Phil on this one, I want everything off the cloud and on my desktops.
Whilst I try to keep everything on the desktop although I do use dropbox for the psuedo cloud based experience of being able to access my data from anywhere.
Main software is VT (Transaction+ and Accounts) although I also use clients systems so still some Sage and Xero work.
I'm not anti cloud and sure that it works for many. I have however suffered a couple of Internet outages and don't want to be in a position of being unable to work simply because I can't access the web.
After saying that I'm not anti cloud I am anti shoddy software and I have to now appologise to Sage as Xero really makes it seem brilliant by comparrison (except for the Sage client tax).
My first reaction to Xero was "You call THAT a balance sheet!".
The nice thing about Xero is that it's quite easy to drop stuff to Excel in order to work with the data in order to create proper accounts in VT (a very common approach being adopted by more and more accountants who use VT accounts but not VT+).
After using Xero though, if a client absolutely, definitely wanted a cloud based bookkeeping solution I would not advise clients to go with that one as it just feels too slow and too clumsy when you are trying to drill down to data (much faster to drop all of the transaction data from Xero to Excel and built pivot tables around the data).
I'm quite interested though to play with some of the other cloud offerings that future clients may have which are hopefully more accountant freindly than Xero.
As mentioned above, whilst I cannot dictate what clients use I would not use cloud based services myself for bookkeeping..
For payroll I use 12pay although like others here I don't offer it as a service and if anyone wants a proper payroll service rather than just a director then I outsource the work as payroll just isn't worth the hassle.
I think that ultimately Phil's approach on that (as shared by a couple of accountants local to me) of owning a seperate autonomous business / profit centre offering payroll services would be the optimal way to go but for now happy to use third party services.
I use office 2007 and definitely would not opt for the pay as you go option of office 365 as Excel is as much a part of me as breathing. There is not a moment that I am on a PC that it's not open as a scratchpad on at least one of my screens. The thought that software that integral to the way one works is on a rental agreement just does not compute.
Use Windows Live Mail for email / diary / contacts,
kind regards,
Shaun.
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Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Interesting that you found the same as I did on Logical Office Mark. It appeared to be the answer to all my practice management problems at first but OMG the setup and use was terrible. I know another local bookkeeper who has just set up on it and I'm waiting for feedback on her experience shortly.
The principle of it is awesome and I loved the automatic email filing feature though.
I had a look at 17hats but it's too general for sole traders e.g. photographers rather than bookkeepers.
I even considered having my own PM solution designed I got so desperate for something that did everything under one roof rather than having lots of bits of software that don't talk well to each other. It was going to be expensive to do and I couldn't get a clear idea of potential market so it didn't go ahead - still in the back of my mind though.
Interesting that you found the same as I did on Logical Office Mark. It appeared to be the answer to all my practice management problems at first but OMG the setup and use was terrible.
Yeah thats what I found. Looked good in the demo (which had 2 off) but when I started using myself it was just so difficult to use and set up so ended up ditching it even though paid for 6 months licence.
There is basically 2 camps of thought; go with the best of breed software options but that means having potentially your client data across 2 or 3 platform, or go with fully integrated option like IRIS or Digita where everything runs off the one database.
IRIS is the most expensive option on the market but is used by more than 50% of accounting firms across the country. The reason for that is that being fully integrated it saves time. That is what you are paying for. Good thing is that used IRIS for most of my practice life when was an employee so know how it works.
I am paying about 3 times more for IRIS that what I could by having separate accounts/tax, PM and time recording packages. But even at that the time it should save should either enable me to take on more work or not have to work so long (left the office tonight about 8.30pm).
Shaun wouldnt like it as it has a "SAGE tax" in that price increases the more clients you need if for or the more users you need. Unless you are on the unlimited version of 300+ clients, which I should be at sometime in the 2nd half of next year.
I started on IRIS but the cost became too expensive once I moved to 50+ clients - this was because the clients were all a lot smaller and didn't need a lot of the fancy features. I then moved to Absolute and Gbooks - both all in packages. IRIS is by far the best and I may well move back to them one day. Gbooks is good ror me, predominantly as it is cloud based.
One thing I forgot to mention is a fantastic bit of FreeWare called Trello. It is like the old fashioned T-Cards but a web based version. Really helps me with workflow management. Excellent value too as it is free!
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Phil Hendy, The Accountancy Mentor
Are you thinking of setting up your own practice or have you set up and need some help?
If so a mentor may be the way forward - feel free to get in touch and see how I can assist you.
I'll investigate Trello Phil, anything that is free has to be worth a try!
I did consider Iris but with the combination of clients I have (3 days per week out with clients) it just seemed like overkill. I'm trying to bring the mix slightly back in favour of working from home though, and don't mind investing in software if I feel it adds enough value so may consider again in the future.
Like you Mark I paid for a licence for LO but took the hit when I cancelled. I wonder if Rod there knows that people are doing this as I'm sure he'd address the issues. Personally I didn't raise it with him but maybe I should have.
surprisingly I have less issue with Iris going for a tiered pricing structure than Sage.
As practice software for businesses with 200+ clients as you suggest Iris has to be the go to integrated product of choice and you expect to pay handsomly for that level of quality software which of course many here will not be in a position to afford.
Sage on the other hand have a VT / Quickbooks comparable product (each having their own strengths and weaknesses) but Iris comparable pricing structure (although still much cheaper than Iris). I think that it is unfair to expect bookkeeepers to pay that much for software that they are only using for bookkeeping for one client at a time.
I regard pay per user for Sage fine but Pay per client!.....
Forgive me if I am wrong, never having used Iris myself but don't practices also need to have Sage as well as Iris? That seems to be the combination of choice for all of the chartered practices in my area.
kindest regards,
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I also had a demo with Logical office and loved it. I signed upto it back in December but still haven't had the time to set it up correctly. I did have someone doing it for me however it took its toll on her and she left as she said it was to complicated to setup. I haven't had the chance to look at it yet but I am also thinking of dumping it.
I sent Rod an email explaining everything and the reply I go was quite rude and basically tried to tell me how to run my practice! I did tell him that I felt his tone was not good or needed as I am now a good person down and finding it difficult to replace her.
I do however still need to get a CRM package and like Clare would like one that sends out reminders etc for me.
I do use Iris for my accounts and although I agree it is pricey I do like how it integrates between the different modules. I am going to have a look at the Practice Management add on as the prices I was quoted the other day were cheaper than logical office! I just haven't had the time to look into it yet.
I use the following software
Bookkeeping - Sage, Sageone (Rubbish would never use again!), Quickbooks online, Admistrate (CRM/Accounts package) and Xero
Payroll - Sage, however I might move away from this as it is becoming more expensive especially with the Auto Enrolement Add on being extra!
Accounts - Iris
Docs & Email - Microsoft 365
I might have a look at google apps as I was told this was good.
It's a minefield out there and time consuming trying to work out the best solutions for your practice.
Good luck!
-- Edited by Moobag on Friday 1st of May 2015 11:51:57 AM
So that's three people just in 24 hours that I know of who have paid good money to Logical Office and dumped it very quickly. Such a shame because the promise is good I even went as far as buying a new laptop to install it on as I was a confirmed Mac user (with Parallels to run Sage/12Pay etc) and it just doesn't deliver on the promises.
Just a thought - I still have it installed on my laptop and now don't have a contract. Can it be used as standalone without attempting to update automatically? If so then while I'm on maternity leave might be a good time to see if I can actually get it working as I want.
Quicknooks - I rather like that. We have wonderful clients down here (especially just over the Devon border as I am) they're mainly rather hobbitlike with hairy feet and always have 3 breakfasts
Like you Mark I paid for a licence for LO but took the hit when I cancelled. I wonder if Rod there knows that people are doing this as I'm sure he'd address the issues. Personally I didn't raise it with him but maybe I should have.
When I was doing the 2nd training session I said to the guy that it just wasnt going to work as was too complicated.
About 30 mins later Rod called me to see what the issue was. I just said it was a lot more complicated than I first thought and not as user friendly as I first thought. He said that like any new system I would need to invest time to get it up and running which would pay dividends in the future. I said I just didnt have the time or inclination to do what I thought was necessary.
He said to think about things given I had already paid for 6 months licence.
I have still to go back to him but havent opened it in the since got it about 2 months ago. Will let him know in the next few weeks that still not for me.
So that's three people just in 24 hours that I know of who have paid good money to Logical Office and dumped it very quickly. Such a shame because the promise is good
I think the thing is that their demo is really slick and gets you thinking this is going to be great; it will send auto reminders, will keep a track of time, will keep a track of jobs, you can do standard letters/engagement letters and email, will do basic document management.
However when reality hits you find it isnt as slick as the demo and really complicated to use.
I was going to use it as an alternative to IRIS but have finally decided to bite the bullet and go for it as if it saves me a couple of hours per client a year it will more than pay for itself. Have managed to get a good deal from IRIS over 38 months which will work out to my benefit if I can move to the unlimited client version (300+ clients) by the time the contract expires in June 2018.
I reviewed our all our software a while back after reading some good reviews for VT transactions.
So the latest update:
Taxcalc , the full package other than the VAT filer as I find the HMRC filer just as efficient. I have heard that the support may have declined but have not needed support for many years. It is networked and like the way portfolios can be managed.
VT , again the full package. I really do like this software as it logical. If I have a problem I simply go back to basics and think it through. An example recently, answered by Shaun, was due to me not scrolling a menu bar enough.
I also reluctantly use Quickfile, not because there is anything wrong with it, but I spend more time correcting client entries than If I had done them myself. No reflection on the software.
Moneysoft , I don t really get too involved with this, but my partner says the support is excellent, and again rarely needed.
Outlook for email, which I export to my Google mail to sync with our Android mobiles. It is also excellent working alongside side the calendar.
I have a time tracker but rarely use it as I tend to price work now. ( nearer to retiring than starting up)
MS Office 2010 but will be subscribing to Office 365 when I can get a few days off to get accustomed to it.
