Non Qualified 'Accountant' - The Book-keepers Forum (UK)

lizg78 · Veteran Member

Non Qualified 'Accountant'

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Liz,

your better positioned than many who call themselves an accountant.

Unfortunately the term is not protected at all so finance providers decide themselves what an accountant is.

Some regard the lowest level of accountancy as being fully qualified ACCA/CIMA.

Others consider AAT/ATT/IFA/AIA/etc. as accountants.

They don't tell you up front of course but you must include your letters on the mortgage application document.

Overall there is "currently" (#1) no legal reason that you cannot call yourself an accountant and sign accounts as an accountant but you may come unstuck on things like passpport applications, mortgage forms, references, etc.

kind regards,

Shaun.

#1 ACCA and ICAEW continue to work on that.

#2 The above is a statement of facts and no reflection on my personal views as to the lowest level that people should be allowed to refer to themselves as an accountant rather than a bookkeeper.

YLB-HO · Guru

Hi Shaun,

#1. So is the IFA

Hi Liz,

Most mortgage companies don't accepts accounts anymore (they don't tell clients this), but ask for either a accountants certificate (which IFA is now listed on most as a acceptable qualification). Some lenders insist of the copy of the SA302 issued by HMRC.

Earlier this year I had a client "freak out" at me because she insisted the lender wanted a copy of her audited accounts (sole trader !!!). I pointed out that this did not exist, and if she wanted some accounts for them, there would be an additional fee for me to created it for her, but I believed they did really need this. When I spoke to the broker he said they just wanted the SA302 issued by HMRC which took about 14 days to get. She got the mortgage without any problems with just this, and ended up apologizing to me. Too often people think they need specific things, which they don't, and they don't realise the person asking does not always check what is actually needed. It seems the brokers secretary had a list of items which may be needed, and automatically asked for them even if they were not needed or relevant for that matter.

Tangfastic · Member

I think Shamus has probably answered your question. With regards to bookkeeper/accountant I always go to something I read on the IAB website which states:

In essence, bookkeepers are technical wizards! They set up and oversee day-to-day record keeping in a clients business - then monitor the accounts ensuring they are up-to-date.

By comparison, its the accountants job to interpret bookkeeping data to assess whether a business is running efficiently. Without well-kept books to refer to, an accountant cant give invaluable tax and financial advice to business owners.

lizg78 · Veteran Member

Funnily enough I've also recently had a sole trade client who needed 'audited' accounts for a mortgage?!?! She was very pleased when I told her she didn't!

I tend to market myself as running a 'bookkeeping & accounting' business as opposed to saying I run an accounting practice.....maybe I should pull my finger out and do another qualification to put an end to the mystery of what I really am!!!!

lizg78 · Veteran Member

OK, so my next question (sorry to ramble on.....I'm in a 'must progress with my business' mood - already taken on a member of staff this morning!).....if I were to do another qualification (and keep up with the subs / CPD this time!) should I do a bookkeeping one or tax one?! Your advice on here is much appreciated as no one else listens to me.......

RobH · Expert

Hi Liz,
I would say do a tax qualification, no doubt about it. You can get lots of people to assist in the bookkeeping and you probably haven't forgotten how to do it in any case. Clients never ask where you are going to post certain transactions but they often ask what the most tax efficient treatment of motor expenses is (Or rather you will be in a position to shout 'stop putting those petrol receipts through the company otherwise you'll incur this tax and that tax!'

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Yep, agree totally with Rob.

I know from your first question that you want to be an accountant without any question mark over it but doing something like ACCA you get hit with all of the restrictions of regulation 8 which actively stops you from working.

Far better methionks to take a serious look at ATT. (Keep thinking about doing that one myself as CPD)

CharlieChav · Member

I think you are still qualified, just not a member of a professional body. I was under the impression anyone awarded a certificate by one of the professional accounting bodies or a British university could use the title "Certified Accountant".

Charlie

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

CharlieChav wrote:
I was under the impression anyone awarded a certificate by one of the professional accounting bodies or a British university could use the title "Certified Accountant".

Mmm...

That sounds a bit like hanging off the coat tails of chartered certified in the hope that an unsuspecting public might be conned into thinking that the person is ACCA.

Seems so wrong but to the best of my knowledge you are right in that certified alone isn't (to my knowledge) protected where chartered certified and chartered are.

Sure that it will all get resolved at some stage as just noticed that the ICPA have also piled into the protect the word Accountant debate I assume on the back of annomalies such as the one that you emphasise.

David Ballantyne · Senior Member

Hi,

The following is a slightly random response to this discussion. Been googling the internet and found the following.

Did you know that there is a Society of Certified Financial Accountants and Tax Consultants? There is also the Association of Certified Bookkeepers, The Institute of Cost and Executive Accountants (established in 1939, a rival to CIMA?), and the Association of Financial Controllers and Administrators.

All sound strangely similar to certain other professional bodies.

David.

YLB-HO · Guru

I love it David.....

Don Tax · Expert

Hi peeps, more building society nonsense. It's a long time since I had a self employed client come in and say "can you do my audit", but building societies are still in thrall to that word.

A broker recently requested the SA302 in the first instance. I tried to dodge it by sending the accounts and computations with the taxable profit almost exactly £30,000.

The client was piggy in the middle so I produced an SA302 through TaxCalc to show her she might be disappointed.

The mortgage wasn't granted as two vehicle AIA claims meant the top line of SA302 showed profit of £6,500. The fact that payments made towards those vehicles were tiny 'did not compute' with the broker.

Tim : /

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Tim
They all just use a tick box and not their brains these days. There is no such thing as evaluating an individual and their business, just your answer will not fit in the box so the 'computer says no' - SH1t in, SH1t out (excuse the French!) One of the first things I learnt as a lender at 17 years of age, both in my job and doing Banking exams, was the acronym Campari & Ice. This was just one of the many tools used for assessing a borrower. Interesting when RBS took over NatWest, not ONE of the RBS Staff I came into contact with had heard of this acronym - which might explain a lot of why RBS got itself it such a financial mess.

That and the atocratic idiot who ran it which was against all GAPP risk assessment practices (not GAAP, but GAPP - another a story for another day, or maybe not!)

Sorry but with Bank Fraud comments Im on a rant today (Im have man flu so feeling a bit peeky!)

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Jo,

I worked with them too. (Currency on demand (over the counter pre packed currency) is my baby).

Never could quite understand how a goldfish managed to eat a whale but it was obvious from the start that the newcomer was not welcome in the club and my money is actually on John Varley never actually wanting ABN AMRO but just wanted RBS to overstretch its resources as Fred Goodwin knew that once he went up against Barclays he couldn't be seen to lose.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Like a lamb to the slaughter! Or a daft bidder not wanting to be outbid at an auction! Oops did I just compare Fred the Shred to a lamb, omg he was a wolf in sheeps clothing. TBH the rot was set in before the ABN issue and I voted against that little purchase although my measly shareholding had no influence and everyone else at the time thought I was stark raving bonkers! SOOOOOOO glad I got out when I did on the job front, just a shame I didnt listen to my brother and dump my shares before I lost £50k. Why would anyone let someone that mad man buy a bank when he wouldnt let anyone change their blue chair for a red one and who bought carpet for the offices that carried a message in it. But they did!

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Did you ever do any work for the Cards and Direct Finance division Shaun?

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi Jo,

I was in mostly in Payments, securities and Fraud (more the Payments part than the other two bits) at the Goodmans Fields site. Only exposure that I've had to cards was on Base2000 for a different bank. I did have some exposure to special projects and thats where I developed the currency on demand product.

Ouch on the £50k. Real loss or paper? I lost £20k on RBS shares and when they did the 5 for 1 I knew that I would never get my money back so I made it real, accepted the loss, dumped the lot and bought Lloyds shares with the proceeeds (I know, I'm a mercenary traitor).

Still won't be getting my money back until the Lloyds shares hit £2 again though.

Cheshire · Master Book-keeper

Ah, so you are the reason they have no foreign currency till at my small local branch now, lol. Paper loss but real enough to me cos when will they ever get back to the price I need them to be at!! NEVER! Although Ive had some massive gains too so Im trying to forget! Im surprised you bought any Banking shares at all after dumping the others.