I have seen a lot of different commentary on this forum and others about the expanding options of software as more customers move to the cloud. Sage, Quickbooks, Xero, etc
Question for this forum:
Is anyone actually changing the products that they are recommending or supporting for customers?
Simply put, I hear/see all the buzz about the new guys-- but cannot tell if anyone is actually making the switch.
Has anyone on here gone from just recommending/supporting one product to embracing others as well? Any colour would be greatly appreciated
Well, its certainly not all Sage and IRIS in the market anymore so yes, people are switching.
There seems to be a movement on here (as on Aweb) in favour of VT.
It started slowly on here with Bill but is now picking up momentum (I'm a VT shop and regularly take users off Sage).
The cloud has shot itself in the foot by adopting the Sage approach of pay per client and hold the data to randsom (to quote Vince). That said, Xero seems to have a growing following and I would say that one is a rising star... I don't intentd to adopt it but I can see that it will have a good following.
All in all though I think that you will find most accountants want a desktop rather than cloud sollution.
Why do you ask, what angle are you coming to this question from?
Shaun.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
Shaun I think many accountants are adopting cloud based solutions. I haven't yet but it's just a matter of time. One reason why bookkeepers and accountants may consider it as beneficial is that clients almost feel they can't leave as all the data is on the software we would be providing! There's plenty of £5 or £10 per month options now so it's not too scary for clients.
Most of my new clients are signing up to Xero, if they are doing the bookkeeping themselves, plus I am actively moving clients over to Xero. Though also in the process of looking at Freeagent to understand how it works as a lot of accountants offer Xero or Freeagent as an online option. Currently have about 20 clients using Xero (though potentially have about 80 more that would benefit I think from moving online.)
Will probably look to offer 2 desktop options; SAGE and VT and 2 cloud options; Xero and Freeagent. Happy to take on clients using other packages, for instance have clients that use Quickbooks, Kashflow, Quickfile etc, but for these will just leave them to get on with using it and wont give any advise if they need help with the software. Feel that giving clients 4 options which I am comfortable with is more than enough.
Most of my new clients are signing up to Xero, if they are doing the bookkeeping themselves, plus I am actively moving clients over to Xero. Though also in the process of looking at Freeagent to understand how it works as a lot of accountants offer Xero or Freeagent as an online option. Currently have about 20 clients using Xero (though potentially have about 80 more that would benefit I think from moving online.)
Will probably look to offer 2 desktop options; SAGE and VT and 2 cloud options; Xero and Freeagent. Happy to take on clients using other packages, for instance have clients that use Quickbooks, Kashflow, Quickfile etc, but for these will just leave them to get on with using it and wont give any advise if they need help with the software. Feel that giving clients 4 options which I am comfortable with is more than enough.
Very helpful.
1. What about Sage cloud products? Sage One / Sage One Extra. Are these good enough to compete with Xero, etc? Would assume there is an advantage of compatibility / user familiarity?
2. Is this idea of offering multiple options on desktop and cloud a far departure from the days in the past when Sage Desktop was the only option? Or was it never like that? I just have a hard time understanding some of the market share numbers they claim to have on desktop
I'm pretty sure that Sage count every version of their software that they have ever sold when they come up with their statistics.
Of course, just because they sold it doesn't mean that anyone is actually using it.
i.e. Some banks give Sage to new business customers but just giving it to them, or even them installing it, does not mean that they actually use it.
I think that the real coup that Sage pulled off was in making theirs the only software where it was relatively cheap and easy to get training and if users could only find training for Sage then it became the only option.
Intuit started hitting the UK market hard a couple of years back by giving away full versions of Quickbooks accountant edition at bookkeeping and accounting events.
Unfortunately the training companies don't seem to have complied with courses to back up the software so the entry of the behomoth of accounting software into the UK market is being a little hampered.
People will always be most comfortable with software that they know which is how Sage is still clinging onto market share despite their client tax.
Over the next few years I forsee Sage either having to wake up and smell the coffee over their licencing for accountants or simply accept that they are going to see their market share eroded by software providers who actually listen to what their clients (i.e. us) want.
Its an interesting point that Rob raises of the data ransom being a selling point.
I don't see how that would work at all as you produce a trial balance that can be ported to any other software.
If the company is limited then it is actually illegal to create an artificial Lien over the data (per the Companies Act for the same reason that we cannot hold a clients books and records to randsom in order to get payment).
So, if you advise a client to use a cloud option and the client stops paying that surely means that their accountant / bookkeeper must continue to pay for the software or risk the financial consequences of putting the client back in the position that they would have been in had they not used software that they could not get their data out of when payment stopped.
The above is of course not applicable with the self employed or partnerships, it would just be incorporated entities that have rights to data that they have not yet paid for.
kind regards,
Shaun.
p.s. on market share statistics, I don't have the current figures but from a study on Aweb a few years back it was recorded that 16% of accounts were filed using Sage software and 14% were filed using VT software (Iris had the lions share). Of course, some users may do their bookkeeping in Sage and Accounts in VT so another case where statistics are absolutely meaningless and can be manipulated as one see's fit.
p.s.2 Of course, most small incorporated clients don't realise that the accountant has no right of lien over there books and that belief alone is normally enough to elicite payment.
__________________
Shaun
Responses are not meant as a substitute for professional advice. Answers are intended as outline only the advice of a qualified professional with access to all relevant information should be sought before acting on any response given.
I'm really referring to the client perceiving that changing accountant/bookkeeper is trickier if they are having the software supplied in this manner...certainly not advocating holding anyone to ransom!
1. What about Sage cloud products? Sage One / Sage One Extra. Are these good enough to compete with Xero, etc? Would assume there is an advantage of compatibility / user familiarity? SAGEOne and SAGEOne Extra is rubbish. Not as good as other online offerings such as Xero
2. Is this idea of offering multiple options on desktop and cloud a far departure from the days in the past when Sage Desktop was the only option? Or was it never like that? I just have a hard time understanding some of the market share numbers they claim to have on desktop Just gives clients an option. Most clients havent a clue what software to use if they dont actually use anything and most will go with your recommendation.
i.e. Some banks give Sage to new business customers but just giving it to them, or even them installing it, does not mean that they actually use it.
This is how I was introduced to Sage. My boss gave me the privilege of being in charge of the books and we used the Sage provided by Barclays. I used it for a couple of years. When I went self employed book-keeping (partly by accident) I used a taxi driver package but then the business got bigger than the package could handle and I shopped around for an alternative.
Intuit started hitting the UK market hard a couple of years back by giving away full versions of Quickbooks accountant edition at bookkeeping and accounting events.
I was introduced to Quickbooks when I did some part time bookkeeping back in 2008, I didn't really like it to be honest.
People will always be most comfortable with software that they know which is how Sage is still clinging onto market share despite their client tax.
With me it was a question of cost. I was already self employed in a different field, not really earning much, when a friend asked me to do his books (taxi company above) Once he had outgrown the software I looked for an alternative, which was when I found VT. It pees all over Sage (unless you need detailed reports) and I would struggle to find anything better I think.
I've very briefly dabbled with Xero when someone wanted their tax return finished and I feel it's ideal for the layman, although I did have to re-categorise some items (probably more the client than the software)
