ICB & AAT - The Book-keepers Forum

ghis · Senior Member

ICB & AAT

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

If you can aford to have both then it's certainly not going to do you any harm.

One thing though, if your ultimate aim is ACCA why go AAT at all? You would do fundamentals level ACCA a lot faster (and cheaper) than acquiring AAT level IV and AAT level IV only gets you exemptions from the fundamentals level.

Employers (or more to the point the agents of employers) as you've already seen advertise for AAT or PQ so if you want to keep employment open I would look seriously at one of those routes.

The only issue there though is that ACCA will severly restrict what you can do under your ICB banner where AAT will not (under ACCA you will only be allowed to offer bookkeeping to trial balance, VAT and Payroll work unless under the direct supervision of a suitably qualified accountant).

Now, there's a whole other question in there. What constitutes a suitably qualified accountant?

In the past I would have said a member of a CCAB body. Then when CIMA left it would have been CCAB or CIMA, Now it seems that battle lines are being drawn with the ACCA no longer accepting CIMA as an equivalent qualification so would it be considered acceptable to be supervised by a CIMA person? Somehow saying as the ACCA set the rules I doubt it.

For a less troubled life maybe AAT and ICB are the best route. or just AAT if your goal is to keep employment and self employment doors open.

Certainly it is still a case that if you want to be employed in an accounts role then AAT or PQ are the routes to go for although ICB are trying to change that perception amongst employers so maybe five or ten years down the path we will start seeing employers advertising for PQ, AAT, ICB or IAB? Who knows. We can only go on what employers and agents are looking for at the moment and it's really still those first two.

HTH,

Shaun.

ghis · Senior Member

Hi Shaun

It's a shame that it's going to take so long to change the perception of the other qualification.
The reason i was going to take the AAT is purely to start at the bottom and work my way up. But as i am about to embark ICB level 3 than i might look into the fundamental level of ACCA. I'm not currently undertaking any book keeping work so i am in the position to learn and gain new qualification without worrying to much about the legalities of being under two separate bodies.

Well i suppose I shouldn't get ahead of myself just yet, I need to do my level 3 first...

ICBUK · Guru

Hi Shaun, hope your well.

you say "The only issue there though is that ACCA will severly restrict what you can do under your ICB banner where AAT will not"

Surely the ACCA restrict regardless of qualification? So it wont matter if you have AAT, ICB or even no qualifications at all?

However, the ICB has a very strong argument put forward that if you are ICB then ACCA should allow you to be regulated by ICB as long as no mention of ACCA happens as you study. Therefore ICB decide what you can and cannot do.

Reason for this is that there is quite a growing number of people going down the bookkeeping route before becoming an accountant. So most of these would have a successful business with a good list of clients.

ACCA are basically telling them they have to give it up, or start subcontracting anything other than basic bookkeeping, whilst they study.

Obviously this is a massive barrier to embarking on ACCA study from a Certified Bookkeeper point of view.

They have admitted this, and realise times are changing, so no longer are all ACCA students accounts assistants working in firms.

I believe we will make it easier to move to ACCA/ICAEW etc, and actually some ICB members have been told (or so they say) that ACCA is not really enforcing the rule for the time being. The ICB has had no official confirmation from ACCA on this point though.

ICBUK · Guru

On the other point of accountant firms looking to employ PQs we are seeing a growing number of accountant firms advertising for ICB or AAT.

In fact someone posted on another forum an advert that just asked for ICB.

The ICB is working with more firms like Moore Stephens who now offers an ICB apprenticeship, and some HW firms are now advertising for ICBs.

Small steps, the ICB is still young, but the ball is rolling and will only speed up biggrin

Spamkebab · Guru

Congrats on the apprenticeship scheme James. It is an absolute nightmare at present for school leavers, i know, having 2 boys around that age. It seems they are staying on at school and college because there are no job opportunities rather than staying on to better their quals. Qualifications mean hardly anything without relevant work experience and i for one am always pleased when i hear of new opportunities for our younger generation.

Neil.

Peasie · Guru

ICBUK wrote:
Hi Shaun, hope your well.
you say "The only issue there though is that ACCA will severly restrict what you can do under your ICB banner where AAT will not"
Surely the ACCA restrict regardless of qualification? So it wont matter if you have AAT, ICB or even no qualifications at all?
However, the ICB has a very strong argument put forward that if you are ICB then ACCA should allow you to be regulated by ICB as long as no mention of ACCA happens as you study. Therefore ICB decide what you can and cannot do.
Reason for this is that there is quite a growing number of people going down the bookkeeping route before becoming an accountant. So most of these would have a successful business with a good list of clients.
ACCA are basically telling them they have to give it up, or start subcontracting anything other than basic bookkeeping, whilst they study.
Obviously this is a massive barrier to embarking on ACCA study from a Certified Bookkeeper point of view.
They have admitted this, and realise times are changing, so no longer are all ACCA students accounts assistants working in firms.
I believe we will make it easier to move to ACCA/ICAEW etc, and actually some ICB members have been told (or so they say) that ACCA is not really enforcing the rule for the time being. The ICB has had no official confirmation from ACCA on this point though.

I think what he might be meaning is ACCA will restrict what you can do (be it ICB or AAT), whereas AAT will not restrict you (with ICB).

ICBUK · Guru

ah gotcha

Shamus · Forum Moderator & Expert

Hi James,

I'm promoting Stuart (Peasie) to be my official translator (lol).

Yes, that's what I meant.

Hope that the rest of the message came accross in the manner that it was intended which was basically not in any way anti ICB (or IAB for that matter).

I was just trying to convey general current preconceptions amongst some employers and the hope that it won't be too long until they catch on that things have moved on and now ICB, IAB and AAT are very much equivalents rather than a heirarchy with AAT at the top.

Keep up the good work James, you're definitely getting there but I suspect that it's a long road yet as there's a lot of history to get past. As you've said yourself in the past, traditionally accountants start as AAT and then move up to the CCAB bodies so Accountants expect those who come after to follow in the same path.

Please keep me informed about the ACCA regulation 8 scenario (still too much of a banker to risk the ACCA's good nature at not applying rules written in stone to the letter).

If the ACCA changed their stance I would be the first one beating down your door after getting my practice certificate back to go with all of my other wall candy. wink

All the best and hope you have a great weekend,

Shaun.

Right, Peasie, over to you, Translate... biggrin

KTC · Veteran Member

Shamus wrote:
Now, there's a whole other question in there. What constitutes a suitably qualified accountant?

In the past I would have said a member of a CCAB body. Then when CIMA left it would have been CCAB or CIMA, Now it seems that battle lines are being drawn with the ACCA no longer accepting CIMA as an equivalent qualification so would it be considered acceptable to be supervised by a CIMA person? Somehow saying as the ACCA set the rules I doubt it.

Shaun.

Given that subsequent parts of regulation 8 explicitly state practising member of UK & Ireland Chartered accountancy bodies (CA, CIMA, CIPFA) and (implicitly) AIA auditors are not restricted, they'll have a hard time arguing CIMA practising members are not suitably qualified and/or suitably experienced qualified accountant.

-- Edited by KTC on Friday 27th of January 2012 09:26:03 PM

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