Hi Christine,

I always include it as the box states "All other inputs" not just those with associated VAT. This box was never going to be relatable back to the VAT figure anyway when one includes non standard rated items. I just think that they look for it being sufficient to support the VAT reclaimed figure.

When they came to visit me (I hadn't done anything wrong, it was just the standard visit after 18 months to ensure that your being a good little bunny) all that they asked me was to justify the figures included (taking them back to invoices and bank) and seemed quite happy with my approach.

Insurance on a company van is to all intent and purpose the same as any other company insurance.

How do you treat insurance? I actually follow the accruals concept and do mine by allocating it against the periods to which it relates and claim the associated VAT in those quarters but I know of others who allocate all of the VAT in the quarter that the Insurance is purchased. Pretty sure that those nice people at the VAT are happy with either method but wouldn't mind knowing how others treat it.

Hope that this helps or at least sparks a better response from someone else.

cheers,

Shaun.

-- Edited by Shamus on Friday 22nd of January 2010 10:03:56 AM

If you use Sage T2 is the code for exempt supplies and they are included in the VAT return so, yes the supply should be included in Box 7.

I think it's the term supply or service that triggers whether or not the figures are included in the VAT return.

So you have standard rated supplies, zero rated supplies, exempt supplies, EU supplies, all included.

Then there's Non-Vatable (in sage T9) which do not appear on VAT return.

I always use T2, same as stamps etc as these are still expenses and I like them to appear on the VAT return so I can reconcile the tax control accounts with purchases and sales..

Morning Tony.

Many apologies. Can't stop this morning as just dipping in and out whilst doing some proper work.

Its a lazy answer I know but here's the guidance on insurance

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000129&propertyType=document

and here's the page showing differences between zero rated and exempt with links to lists of what falls into what category.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/forms-rates/rates/rates.htm

Talk later,

Shaun.

Hi Tony

An individual  can claim back the VAT on a new build, a coversion or the renovation on property that has been empty for more than ten years. You can't claim the VAT back (unless you are VAT registered) for modifying or improving an existing dwelling.

All invoices must be proper VAT invoices made out to the individual developing the property. You then complete a form, listing all the invoices (they have to be in the same order as the invoices). You can only claim once so it's usual to wait until the devlopment is completed and has a certificate of completion. You can claim before but you would not be able to claim subsequent invoices.

The builders and tradesmen involved can supply invoices with no VAT directly to their customer (including their labour and materials they supply)

From my experience local builders and tradesmen do not understand the process and getting them to supply correct invoices can be a nightmare. If  a client pays for materials and the builder collects them, the invoices are often in the name of the builder and they have to be cancelled and reinvoiced correctly (altered or photocopied invoices aren't acceptable)

Bill

This link takes you to HMRC guidance notes

http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kbroker/hmrc/forms/viewform.jsp?formId=3645

-- Edited by Wella on Wednesday 3rd of March 2010 11:00:40 AM

Tony

I am not experienced with VAT but reading the VAT guide VAT Notice 701/16
It appears that water supplied to an industrial business that uses water as part of its process is VATable. Non industrial businesses is zero rated

2.3 What are industrial activities?

An industrial activity is any activity described in any of Divisions 1 to 5 of the 1980 edition of the Standard Industrial Classification. In brief, those Divisions are

1. Energy and water supply industries
2. Extraction of minerals and ores other than fuels; manufacture of metal, mineral products and chemicals
3. Metal goods, engineering and vehicle industries
4. Other manufacturing industries
5. Construction

I believe that Business Rates & Council Tax are a form of taxation and fall outside the scope of VAT

Bill

As a footnote, VAT is not so basic and I for one do not find it an easy subject - It's OK on the run of the mill stuff, it's when you delve outside the norm it gets complicated

-- Edited by Wella on Wednesday 3rd of March 2010 12:03:02 PM

Thats confirmed things in my mind but the standard rate on water supply to business I find stange as I have never seen VAT on my business water bill nor have I ever reclaimed any.
Thanks to Shaun and Bill

Hi Shaun

Like the screen capture.

I think the deciding factor is the word Industrial. In my last I gave examples of what HMRC class as industrial. I lifted it of their site, with the VAT section. It didn't copy and paste too well so I retyped verbatum.

I think if, if for example you are a retail shop or an office and your water use is for the  supply of drinking water, normal hygiene etc. then it is zero rated

(Where's Sheila when you need her?)

Follow this long winded link and look at para 2.3 and  2.4

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000132&propertyType=document



-- Edited by Wella on Wednesday 3rd of March 2010 02:20:58 PM

Good luck on Friday

Bill

Council tax and business rates are exempt rather then outside the scope of VAT.

Things outside the scope of VAT are wages, paye, nic, internal transfers, etc.

Hi Luthier

Just goes to show how we take things for granted. I also got myself confused

Insurance, as you say is exemt, as is things like bank charges etc.

The Sage code is T2, which is posted to the VAT return (Just checked Sage)

HMRC website says, exempt supplies are not included in the VAT account

see extract below

                                                                                                                             

Exempt goods and services

There are some goods and services that are exempt from VAT. Exempt goods and services are not taxable for VAT, so if you supply them, then:

you don't charge any VAT on them

• you don't include them in your VAT accounts
• you can't normally claim back the VAT on related purchases

Goods and services that are exempt from VAT include:

insurance (but there is an Insurance Premium Tax (IPT) that may apply instead)

• some services from doctors and dentists
• some types of education and training

                                                                                                                                

However VAT700/12 does clearly say that they are included.

I will continue as I am and still include them on the return

HTH

Bill